Episode 242 – Thomas Ryan

Richard Matthews: [00:00:00] What is it that you’re fighting for?

What’s your mission with Bigly Sales?

Thomas Ryan: So I wanna solve this problem

I wanna fix customer support

I wanna fix call centers

I want to make it wonderful

as an experience for people

and use AI to do it

and the tech is here

you know, we have it working

in a sandbox environment already

so I mean just imagine

next time you call into your bank

you call Bank of America

instead of getting an automated system

sweet-sounding person picks up the phone

you know, man or woman

we’ll test different voices, right?

You can do like a little spinoff

of Morgan Freeman

or you know james Earl Jones

or maybe Elizabeth Hurley

or whatever

like whatever your favorite

kind of voice is

like do you wanna have Hugh Grant

be talking to you like

during your thing? Right?

Richard Matthews: Part of your profile

at the knows who your favorite voice actor is

Thomas Ryan: that’d be amazing, right?

​

Richard Matthews: [00:01:00] Hello and welcome back to The Hero Show. My name is Richard Matthews and today I have the pleasure of having Thomas Ryan on the line. Thomas, are you there?

Thomas Ryan: Hey, I’m here. How are you?

Richard Matthews: Awesome. [00:02:00] So glad to have you here. I know we were chatting before we got started. You’re coming in from South Florida, is that right?

Thomas Ryan: Yeah, I’m down in the Fort Lauderdale area.

Richard Matthews: Fort Lauderdale. We spent all of the last like year and a half traveling all around Florida and visiting everything around there. The only place we ever skipped was like Miami Fort Lauderdale. We went to go, we had to go around it.

Thomas Ryan: Man. You gotta come. I mean, we have all the Michelin Star Restaurants and we have, you know, the great beaches and, you know, entertainment and.

Richard Matthews: It was you know, ’cause we’re traveling in the RV and so for our audience that’s following us, we’re still in California. We’ll be back in Florida in a few months. But the as you’re going down like that East Coast there. It’s like all the way down to, what is it? Like Fort Pierce, you know, the cost to stay is fairly reasonable.

And then you get down to Miami Fort Lauderdale and it suddenly jumps 4 to 6 X.

Thomas Ryan: That sounds about right.

Richard Matthews: For the cost to stay for the same month. And I’m like, oh man, we have to really wanna stay here for a month to pay the rates.

Thomas Ryan: Did you make it to the keys or anything?

Richard Matthews: We did, we actually skipped over Fort Lauderdale and stayed in the Keys. We have a membership at a site there, the Keys. [00:03:00] So, it’s crazy, but when we can get booked in there, we can stay for two weeks in the Keys for like 200 bucks, which is nuts. So, we did stay there we went scuba diving and we fed the iguanas that aren’t, we’re not supposed to feed.

And you know, fed the tarpon and all the other fun stuff you can do out there. Super cool.

Thomas Ryan: Amazing man.

Richard Matthews: So what I wanna do before we get too far into the interview is just do an introduction of who you are and then we’ll dive into your story. So Thomas Ryan is the driving force behind Bigly Sales, an innovative AI sales automation company.

As I said before, we got on all sorts of cool questions about that. As the CEO and founder Thomas has been instrumental in developing cutting edge AI tools that redefine the sales process. Bigly Sales is known for its AI sales agents designed to significantly enhance sales efficiency, demonstrating Thomas’s commitment to innovating in the realm of AI driven sales solutions.

So before we get too far into that, what I wanna start off with is what are you guys known for, right? What’s your business like? Who do you serve? What do you do for them?

Thomas Ryan: So right now what we’re doing is we’re automating the lead [00:04:00] process for most businesses. At the moment we’re targeting home services. We’re targeting legal, we’re targeting insurance. The reason we’re focusing on those areas is because there’s a lot of specialization that goes into this. So we wanna make sure that we understand exactly who we’re targeting and that we can do it effectively and efficiently.

And for us to just take on every business on earth is very difficult. So, you know, for us to take on another roofing company, we’re already dealing with roofing companies, you know, covering 30,000 zip codes across the U.S. We’re already dealing with, you know, people doing bath remodeling and, you know, kitchen remodeling across 30,000 zip codes across the U.S.

So it’s much easier for us to take another client in that area because everything, it’s the same questions. It’s the same process, it’s the same everything, you know. So we’re going segment by segment, but we’re gonna be doing everything over the next year too.

Richard Matthews: That’s really cool. So you guys, one of the things that’s interesting to me and is the question I’ve always sort of had about these AI sales agents and whatnot, is a lot of times, you know, you [00:05:00] have both, you know, someone reaches out to you on your site. And maybe that’s, you know, it’s an email or it’s a form or something.

Is the agent responding to them like in the live chat or are they responding to them via email? Or are they like, are they calling them back? Like, what is the AI agent actually doing?

Thomas Ryan: So we’re doing all the above. Right now we have email responses live. We have SMS responses live. We have all our autoresponders live. We can do any trigger event that you want. If we get a phone call right now, we’re responding back with SMS, but we’re gonna have AI calls live probably in March at some point.

Richard Matthews: So like an actual AI agent will be able to call a human being back and have a live two-way conversation.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah. So what we do is we hook this up to Claude and to ChatGPT. And right now we have a latency down to under a second. And we’re playing around with this in our sandbox right now. But we can say, okay, here’s the four or five questions that we need to get answered for this [00:06:00] business. Let’s do something really easy, like home services, right?

So it’ll be, do you own your own home? So are you the homeowner? Is it a single-family house? Right? You’re not in a condo building. You might want to ask, are you in a gated community? Right. So we’ll get the questions that they need answered. It will ask that, and then we’ll book that appointment and schedule that appointment.

Or we could have it to a live transfer to, you know, an agent after that. If it’s something that’s a more complex sale, if it’s an insurance product or something like that where you need to talk to a licensed agent afterwards. But we can go, we can give it whatever questions we wanna have it ask those questions to that person.

And we can literally clone any voice there is. So I could take your voice, we could clone your voice. We could have sound exactly like you.

Richard Matthews: We’ve done a voice cloning with I actually taught my son how to do voice cloning. And he has gotten all of his friends and their parents to clone all their voices for a novel that he’s written. And he’s currently using AI to voice act as novel so he can have an audio book version of his novel.

Thomas Ryan: That’s amazing. That’s my daughter’s doing a novel [00:07:00] as well, so I think the most valuable thing you can teach kids or anyone right now is how to use these tools. If you’re good at using these tools, you’re gonna be 10 times more valuable than an employee who doesn’t know how to use these tools.

So, if you’re running your own business, if you know anything you’re doing with this, you should have some people playing around with this stuff because it’s gonna be, you know, just incredibly valuable. But we clone your voice and we can basically have it answer any question and then we can feed it all your company data.

We put it into a vector database so it can access it very quickly. And any question that you ask, it’ll be able to answer your question and then go back and get the form fill done.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. And I was like I literally just hired a personal assistant who will probably hear this episode, but like we ran them through I ran several applicants through like a test task of like, Hey, here’s what I want you to do. And the ones that actually used AI to help improve their responses are the ones that actually got considered for the position’ cause I was like, I need. I need people who know how to use these tools and play with them and to get the best result possible. And like, to that end, you know, my as, as soon as ChatGPT sort of got to the [00:08:00] point where we could have like a professional account, which, and it feels like the world has changed dramatically in one year, but it was like summertime last year.

I bought my son an account for school and I was like, listen, if you turn a because we homeschooled, ’cause we travel. And I was like, if you turn in something to me that still has grammar and structural errors in it, I’ll give it right back to you. I was like, you have access to, you know, robots that can fix that stuff for you.

The world will not accept spelling errors and grammar errors and other things going forward because it’s obvious that you haven’t used the tools that are available to you. So I’m like, I it’s a requirement for our homeschool stuff now that they learn to use these tools.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah. And a large portion of my team is offshore, right? So a lot of them speak English as a second language. And it’s like you better have a county or a county, you better have a Grammarly account. You better have a ChatGPT account. You should using this stuff like with our SEO, I have a couple of people do an SEO, we’re creating 20 SEO articles a day.

They’re able to create these articles, they’re able to, you know, go and edit these articles and get these things put out where, you know, we can put out 600 articles a [00:09:00] month. And you know, if you go back a year, you know, you would be lucky with that same team to get 20 out, right? So you can just 30x the amount of work, 50x the amount of work, and this is with good quality. Know, if we had slightly lower quality, we could probably do a hundred X.

Richard Matthews: So just out of curiosity, what if, what do you do with the or how do you handle more complicated, like sales situations? Say for instance, you and I get off of this call today and I want to have, you know, we talked about sending you, I don’t know, an invite to do a content planning session with our podcast team. Could your AI system handle that kind of a follow up?

Thomas Ryan: The short version is we can do anything, it’s just what do we have the bandwidth to do right now? So unless we were gonna be able to do this for 50 or a hundred large companies, I’d probably say no to that right now until we have more bandwidth, right? Like literally we’re walking away from business that’s outside of our core competency.

Or just something different because it takes just as much time for me to set it up for a giant organization as it does for, you know, a one man [00:10:00] band. And you know, there’s just a lot more revenue with the, an organization with hundreds of people than there is with.

Richard Matthews: So to that end, are you working on setting up like self-service options for smaller businesses who are outside of the core competencies?

Thomas Ryan: That’s it, that’s the SDK. So we have an SDK that’s in beta right now. And you know, any business can go and set that up. And if you have a developer or if you just wanna sit down with ChatGPT and be like, Hey ChatGPT, how do I implement this? Right. You know, you can do So ChatGPT your API documentation and then say, how do I do this? And like, there it is.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, for those of you who have not played with it, I spent six hours a few months ago playing with ChatGPT and I was like, I wanna write an iPhone app that does XYZ and I don’t know how to write iPhone apps. I don’t know anything about it. So I sat down with ChatGPT and I was like, tell me the questions I need to ask you about writing an iPhone app.

And it told me the questions I needed to ask it. So I started asking those questions and then it would answer ’em. And six hours later I had a functioning iPhone app that did what I wanted to do.

Thomas Ryan: it’s just I mean, you couldn’t have done that in probably three months a year ago.

Richard Matthews: [00:11:00] Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: You still might be working on it, right? And you were able to crank it out in six hours because you basically have the God machine in the background that knows everything that was ever written on the internet.

Richard Matthews: It’s like it reminds me, so, I know it seems like ancient history, right? But like when I was doing that, the context window for ChatGPT was 8,000 characters. And for those of you guys who haven’t used ChatGPT, a context window is how much like memory it is capable of accessing in your chat.

And and it currently it’s like 126,000 but it was like 8,000 when I was playing with it. And it reminded me, it’s like you have a PhD in everything, like an assistant who has a PhD in everything, but her name is Dory and she can’t remember like what she did five minutes ago. So you have to keep reminding her.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah, all those limitations have basically gone away. Right now, I don’t know if they’ve updated Claude, but Claude was at seventy-five pages last I checked. And ChatGPT was like two or 300 pages of information that I could remember. And you know, when the next update comes out, which is gonna be three, six months from now, it’s now gonna be 500 pages or a thousand pages, [00:12:00] 5,000, whatever.

The rate that this is growing is just exponential. So what they’re saying is the AI tools, the power is doubling every three to six months. So Go.

Richard Matthews: That whole, I would say that whole Moore’s law thing, it’s, you know, it’s out the window at this point, right? It’s not, you know, doubling every 18 months. It’s doubling and tripling and quadrupling in months time. And the businesses who aren’t taking advantage of this stuff right now are going to lose out in the near term.

Right? It’s not like a future problem you’re gonna have to deal with. Like, you should figure out how you’re implementing AI in your business today.

Thomas Ryan: A six-month. Double means this is a thousand times more powerful in five years.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: It’s a million times more powerful in 10 years. So, you know, 2024 is the year 2023. This was mostly a toy. The API wasn’t out. No one had built anything because the API wasn’t out. Every company out there is talking about building these things.

If they’re a software company, they’re already building these things. You’re seeing layoffs in Silicon [00:13:00] Valley. They’re directly related to this, right? The Googles, the Microsofts, the Apples, they’re already letting people go because AI is doing the work that people used to do. So, you know, I mean, that’s happening already.

Everyone is going to be using these tools and you know, 2024 is the year, right? Like it’s the year that this becomes mainstream, where everyone has built this into whatever app that they’re building, whatever tool already exists, be it a Salesforce or you know, or an SAP or an Oracle or you know, any MA or Microsoft, anything Microsoft is doing, it’s gonna be in everything.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, absolutely. So I know it’s a long sort of introduction to what it’s you do. I wanna dive into your origin story, right? So every good comic book hero has an origin story. It’s the thing that made them into the hero they are today. And we heard that story. Were you know, born a hero or you bit by a radioactive spider that made you wanted to start an AI sales company? That’s exactly what happened.

Thomas Ryan: I got the radioactive spider Biden.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. [00:14:00] So basically, how did you get here? How did you start Bigly sales and get into this AI world and building, building what you’re building now?

Thomas Ryan: So I was in staffing my whole career. Both my parents ran staffing companies you know, of varying sizes, and I grew up in that space. I was working there since the time I was 14. I was working in the staffing world, so I was dealing with sales teams. We were you know, these were really direct sales organizations, so I grew up in direct sales organizations and I worked there for, you know.

Basically 25 years. So that was my background. And so you said, well, how the hell do you get into AI? Right? How do you get into doing this? Back in 2003, I got pulled onto a project where we were redoing our CRM system, and it was, how do you make the CRM function better? How should it be set up?

How do we want one screen going to the next? What do we want the rules to be? You know? How do we deal with these interactions? And this is for an organization with hundreds of employees. You know, so they’re relatively complex [00:15:00] interactions. And then you’d have fights between the guys about who got credit for what deal and, you know, over territories and stuff like that.

So it was, how do you set up all these rules? And so anyway, that was kind of my introduction. I you know, was on that project. I was playing with it. I was saying how, you know, saying how things should run, how things should work, right? Looking at what systems were in place and. Then I launched my own company.

I launched a staffing agency. It was gonna be mostly online. And the initial model didn’t work very well, which happens a lot with startups, right? You know, you try doing something, it doesn’t work exactly the way you want, you pivot. So we did a more traditional staffing model and went from 20 grand in sales to 12 million in 18 months.

And, anyway what was really moving the needle for us was the tech, right, the ability to take a database sort from, you know, 2 million people in our database, get it down to the 200 people that we thought were right for a particular job. Be able to click one button, be able to email [00:16:00] everyone. So the initial idea for Bigly was a CRM system, and it was going to solve the problems that exist.

You know, at least in my mind with most CRMs the problem is the data doesn’t make it into the system that your emails don’t make it in. Now, Salesforce and the newer ones, if you have a newer CRM and you’re paying hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars for it, it probably does this now, right?

But at the time, most of the emails wouldn’t make it into the CRM. It wasn’t connected to your phone at all. Most of still aren’t connected to your phone. None of your text messages would make it into the CRM, right? None of your phone calls would make it into the CRM. And then what you would have to do is whenever you got done with a phone call or something, you were supposed to go back into the CRM and you’re supposed to manually log all of that data.

And salespeople absolutely hated doing it. And because they hated doing it, and if you actually did it, you’re gonna spend an extra hour or two a day basically doing busy work. It usually didn’t get done with most people in [00:17:00] most organizations. And then there was a bunch of problems for, you know, companies, right?

If your sales rep has all the data on his cell phone and it’s not in your computer system, that guy walks out the door. One, they’re probably bringing most of their clients with them, right? So as the business owner, you’re not even gonna know who those people are. You might not have a way to contact them.

If it’s deals that are in progress, you might not know what those deals exist, right? So a guy, you know, would say, Hey, I have a couple big deals I’m about to close. Walk out the door, take them across the street to another firm. You know? Get an offer for twice the commission, and basically just take all the work outta your pocket, right?

So we would see this stuff all the time. I would, you know, I would see all these issues all the time of you know, guy leaves and everything’s on sheets of paper that he has in a notebook. You know? Text messages back and forth, and none of this stuff is anywhere. And someone leaves. It’s like, oh my god, we don’t know what happened to all this work?

So anyway, the whole idea was to automate this whole thing to make sure [00:18:00] that every text message, every email, every phone call, everything was logged in that CRM, you could see it and you could do reporting on it. You know, and you would save the data entry time and you would have a record of everything that was transpiring in your organization.

You could track people, you could track ’em remotely, right? So that was the initial idea. And what we found when we went to market with this is guys are like yeah, that’s great. But I really just want leads. You know, and or I’d really just wanna be able to text all the guys in my database, right?

So we had a lot of people who were just using it to do text blasts, right? They just wanted to go and message, you know, they had 10,000 people in their database then wanna send ’em all a message, Hey, we’ve this deal coming up, we’re doing this special, you know, or are you interested in this? So that’s how people were actually using the system.

And then we saw all sorts of problems with it. A lot of them would use a VA, right? Or a very junior person to do this sort of work. You know, oftentimes the language would be broken English. You know, the follow up would be terrible, Right? So a person would [00:19:00] send out a blast, they would get responses into that blast and they wouldn’t follow up with them for a week.

Well, that doesn’t work very well, you know, so we were thinking, how do we fix these problems? How do we respond to things instantaneously? How do we evaluate when someone is sending out messages that aren’t TCPA compliant? How do we, you know, there was all sorts of issues we were running into. And then we saw what was happening with ChatGPT.

They came out with GPT-III, and it was like, I would say with the Thunderbolt that’s like, this fixes every issue we have overnight. This fixes all of it, right? So we applied for the beta group for the API. We got it right after the beta group. We were the first release after beta. And I’d already had a big team of developers who were building all these communication tools, you know, for email and for text and anyway that’s the whole Genesis.

Richard Matthews: That’s really amazing and I know, like, just hearing you talk, I can already [00:20:00] see like our organization has those problems and we’re small, right? We’ve only got one person doing sales and doing follow up. And like I know for instance ’cause I do a lot of the sales for our own company that it’s like I get off the phone calls with you know? Get off a Zoom call and we have the Zoom call recorded.

So like we have the transcript, everything that, that went down. But like, that doesn’t exist in the CRM unless someone puts it in the CRM. And tabs that we talked about on the call don’t make it into the CRM unless someone puts it into the CRM. And so like we, we hire a human being to manage that stuff and then like if we test back.

Thomas Ryan: Or you could do it yourself and spend an extra hour or two a day doing it which?.

Richard Matthews: If I text back and forth with a lead. That stuff doesn’t make into the CRM unless I put it in there myself. And if they email me back from something that we’ve sent out, even if we sent the email from the CRM, it just ends up in our email system. It doesn’t back end up back in the CRM.

And we’ve got advanced CRMs, right? We’re not using like cheap stuff, right? We’re spending paying money for these things. And none of that stuff happens, right? Unless we make it happen. And so we make it happen by force with human labor. And so, you’re basically saying you built a [00:21:00] system that solves all of those problems and then take it a step further. Now it’ll actually interact on your behalf better than you would.

Thomas Ryan: That’s it. So in initially it was gonna be that you could just schedule out everything, right? I wanna schedule every communication for a year. So we’d already built out the tools to say, okay, I’m gonna put someone into this sequence, right? And every month I’m gonna follow up with them.

I’ll send them a text every month, or I’ll send them, you know, a text every two week once a month, a text at once a month, an email, and you could create whatever kind of sequence you want, but you manually still had to do that. I had to program whatever sequence I wanted. I had to come up with everything I wanted to say during that sequence.

And then if someone responded back, I still had to notice that they had responded and get to them in a timely fashion, So.

Richard Matthews: So I know we’re only like, 15 minutes into the interview here, but we have to shut up and take my money point yet? Um, So let, like legitimately, when is your SDA coming or SDK coming out and when.

Thomas Ryan: Well, it’s in beta. It’s in beta. If you wanna play around with it in beta, [00:22:00] we can get it to you, you know, probably this week.

Richard Matthews: Would be amazing. And I will sing your praises ’cause we’ll develop that whole thing out. For, you know, small business like ourselves. That’s genius. It’s exact, it sounds like the exact problem that I’m currently trying to solve that I can’t figure out how to solve ’cause the tools don’t exist yet. You’re saying the tools do exist. You made them.

Thomas Ryan: Yes, exactly. You know, I need it to make I’m disorganized, right? So for me.

Richard Matthews: Yeah were good.

Thomas Ryan: Systems, you know? I try to, okay, just meet with everyone every day at this exact time and make sure this happens, you know? But you’re running a business. I’m working 60-80 hours a week already. I got three kids.

I’m getting pulled in 6 million different directions. There’s problems, there’s fires, there’s thing, right? So, and just remember to do this particular thing and you know, it’s very hard for me. So to have a system that automates all of this, to make sure all the human error stuff of which I’m prone to don’t happen.

You know, and if you don’t look at it, all this stuff, you’re like, oh, why is this a big deal? And then you start running a sales [00:23:00] organization, you start looking at what people are actually doing. It’s like, did you follow up with that guy who said he wanted to buy from us last week? And people are like, oh, I forgot, you know?.

Yeah. And I mean, just in the stuff, the training stuff where you’d have to train over and over for, you know, a lot of this kind of blocking and tackling very simple they sound simple until you put it into practice. And then nothing simple.

Richard Matthews: This is just a tactical question for you. One of the things that we’ve been doing for the last three months is every single sales call has been recorded, and then I had a human being go through and they’re, we’re currently doing that. My, so they’re not done yet, but every single sales call is broken out.

So we have the pitch separated and we have every question that clients have asked us and the answers that we’re given. And then they’re, we’re gonna work on ranking them into like, Hey, here’s, you know, better answers to this question, less good answers to this question. And we’ll have like a whole set of essentially training data. Like, this is how we pitch,

Thomas Ryan: That’s amazing. And the whole thing is with the AI, if you, now you’re just doing this for a small organization, but say you’re doing this for an organization where you have a thousand people on the phone. Right? And if you have a thousand people on the [00:24:00] phone, you know, a lot of them probably are in northern Mexico, a lot of ’em speak English as a second language.

A lot of ’em might not have completed high school. Right? You know, it’s probably not the best and the brightest globally who are doing this. So to be able to fix all these problems once, come up with the best answer for this stuff or the five best answers, and then have the AI try those different answers and then be able to go and analyze that and say, where did this succeed and where did it fail?

Right? And then to be able to keep iterating with it, to be able to just train one system one time to do all these things, versus having to train people over and over. Someone comes in, they’re there for a week, they walk out the door, right? They’re there for a year, they walk out the door and all the knowledge goes with them, you know, and you have to keep training people over and over.

And then just all the other issues that, that you have with hiring, especially with hiring offshore, managing those people, making sure they show up, you know, making sure they’re actually working, tracking [00:25:00] everything, doing all, you know, it’s a logistical nightmare. Yeah the AI being able to take all of that data and analyze that data and then come up with it, you know, they’ve already said Altman has already said one of the first capabilities that AI is gonna have is it’s going to be super persuasive.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: And this is why, because it will be able to take all of these answers look at, and you’ll be able to train a system on it. It might not happen this year, but you know, it’s probably gonna happen in 2025, that someone will have taken this for a particular data set and figured out everything that works. And I mean, that’s something that we’re gonna be doing as well.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. It’s fascinating too. It’s one of the things I talk about, I speak on AI regularly ’cause we use a lot of AI on our agency, on the service delivery side. And we talk a lot about using AI to break the Iron Triangle, right? And so what people if you’re familiar with the Iron Triangle is better, cheaper, faster, pick two, right?

And everyone’s familiar with that trope, right? And I was like, if you want to play with AI, there’s two things that you should understand in your business. One is that AI a [00:26:00] lot of people are still trying to. Replace human beings with AI, which will eventually happen, but right now some of the best uses of it are pairing AI with human beings, right?

And so you can get super powered human beings. And to that end, we are able to offer you know, just like for instance one of the, some of the writing stuff that we do, and you mentioned this earlier with the SEO, things that you guys are doing 600 plus articles a month, is that you can have can have better quality than you would if it was just human beings.

You can increase the quantity and you’re getting it done faster, right? So you get better, cheaper, and faster. And so you then you can take those cost savings and you can pass them onto your clients and you can pass them onto your margin, right? Because there’s enough cost savings there that you can do both, right?

And a lot of that comes with marrying the power of these tools with your human team and ’cause they’re, you know, it’s just really fascinating to see what we’re, what you can do with it. And I know we’ve been we’ve been steadily increasing the number of clients that we’re serving and our labor costs are going up, but they’re not going up at the same rate they were a [00:27:00] year ago because the same team can handle more work while maintaining quality and speed because of the efficiencies that are coming from leveraging the tools that we have now.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I just couldn’t agree more that, you know, again I’m gonna keep repeating this. I’m gonna be a broken record. The most valuable thing you can do is learn how to use these tools. Get your kids using these tools. The employees who know how to use these tools will be able to do 10 times what the employees who don’t are.

So, if you’re worried about your job, learn how to use these tools, right? If you’re running a business, learn how to use these tools your business will make more money. And it’s not, oh, this isn’t ready yet. I mean, we’re still, to me this is like, you know, I’m gonna date myself now, but you remember back when the internet where you had these 14 four modems and stuff like that, and you hear like, you know, you’d hear like the noises it trying to connect and then you’d try to download a picture or something and you know, it would take five minutes and.

People are like, this is never gonna catch on. No one’s ever gonna use [00:28:00] this internet thing. We’re at that point with AI, we’re, that’s where we are. And one of the big bottlenecks is just the processing power. And they’re trying to make the chips fast enough to keep up with the demand for AI. That won’t be a bottleneck forever. So it’s, you know, it’s just gonna explode from it.

Richard Matthews: We’re already seeing the large models get, you know, get turned into smaller models. They’re gonna, I would imagine within two maybe pushing it out to three years that you’ll have on device processing, like on your iPhone or on your Android device that are just as capable as the massive server things are today. Right?.

Thomas Ryan: It surprise me at all.

Richard Matthews: It wouldn’t surprise me even a little bit. And you know, it won’t be too long before it’s built into your watches and your smart rings and your eye goggles that, you know, the stuff that’s coming. But man, you gotta learn how to use this stuff ’cause it’s not going anywhere.

Right? I remember that I, you know, I remember convincing my mom in High School that we needed to buy dial up internet and, you know, it made all the fun noises and whatnot. And I remember the first time that I was so excited to have access to Yahoo [00:29:00] search and I had my computer in my closet in my bedroom because we had like a walk-in closet.

And I was like, I needed a place for a computer. And, you know, houses weren’t built with places for computers back then ’cause they weren’t a thing. And I remember. I was very excited the first time we got it all set up and I brought my mom and I was like, look, we’re connected to the internet, and it’s, she like 10 minutes to get connected and she was like, I don’t know what we’re doing.

And she left to go get coffee or something. And then I was like, it finally like loaded up and I was like, look, this is Yahoo. We could search for things. And I searched for, I believe it was Shania, Twain. And I clicked enter and you know, it draws like every single line of the webpage, one line at a time, like all the way for the search results.

And it took like 10 minutes to do the whole thing. And my mom was like, this is ridiculous. Why would you care about this at all? I’m like, this is gonna change the world.

Thomas Ryan: People are like, this is the fax machine, right? It’s just a, it’s the fax machine. It’s, or it’s a catalog, you know, people didn’t get it right so early on I forget who it was. It was one of the economists who won like the Nobel. Prize was like, this is gonna be no more impactful than the fax machine. And I think he’s still an [00:30:00] economist, but boy did he get that one wrong.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, absolutely. So I wanna switch gears and talk a little bit about your superpowers, right? So every iconic hero has a superpower, whether that’s a fancy flying suit made by their genius intellect, or the ability to call down thunder from the sky. In the real world, heroes have what I call a zone of genius, which is either a skill or a set of skills that you were born with or you developed over the course of your career to really help set you apart.

They allow you to help your clients slay their villains, come on top of their own journeys. The way I like to frame this for my guests is if you look at all the skills that you developed over the course of your life and your career, there’s probably a common thread between all those skills and that common thread is where you find your superpower.

So what is the superpower that you’ve been bringing to bear to help build Bigly Sales?

Thomas Ryan: I mean, it’s really just my background and my experience on this. So if you’re coming at this from a straight programming standpoint, I don’t think you’re gonna get this right because you haven’t seen how these things work in real life. And to look at the nitty gritty of it, the amount of work that you have to do to try to manage one of these sales [00:31:00] organizations to make it function reasonably well is Herculean.

So to take all of those skill sets and then mix them with the. You know, the actual program, the analytical stuff. And right now, like we just hired a guy from iT iT is like the MIT of India, except it has an under 1% acceptance rate. It, these are the guys who are like, you see on that script spelling bee challenge, right?

Those are the kids who end up going to IIT. Like, people like that, right? Where they keep spelling words that you’ve never heard of before and you’re like, I think I have a pretty good vocabulary and this kid just spelled a word. I’ve never heard of it. And then the next one does it too, and the next one does it too.

And the next, you know, like this is unbelievable. You know, you know, my background for this, my recruiting background, being able to find great people, being able to find that talent and to be able to, you know, have them see my vision of the future. I haven’t found someone who runs a large sales or call center organization that isn’t like, oh, we don’t, we’re not gonna need this.

Yeah, I [00:32:00] don’t see the use case. I don’t see the value. I mean, it’s a hundred percent. Some of them wanna see like, yeah, let me see it in action first. Right? Let me see if we can actually do it. But I mean, we’re a hundred percent of the people I’m talking to or are interested.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: You know?, It might be just do it with 1% of my calls first, or do it with, you know, 1% of my leads first, and then.

Richard Matthews: If the reality is half of the promise, it’s still worth it. Right?

Thomas Ryan: Yeah. And we’re just building this stuff like crazy. And, you know, I’ve had an idea for recruiting that I’ve wanted to put into into effect forever. And we’re finally doing it this year. I’m running a coding contest. So we built all of our stuff in Laravel, which is a PHP framework.

And PHP is basically what the internet’s built on it’s like 80 or 90% of the internet is on PHP.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, all wordpress it’s all in PHP.

Thomas Ryan: Excatly. Yeah. It’s WordPress is PHP, right? So anyway, this is a framework and what a framework does, it just allows people to, you know, if like you’re looking for a shopping cart, someone can build a shopping cart and then you can just plug it [00:33:00] in with a couple lines of code without having to build an entire shopping cart from scratch.

So there’s a lot of solved problems out there, right? How do you handle passwords? How do you do logins? How do you do so rather than have to build all this stuff from scratch, you can grab a couple lines of code and you can implement it without having to build the whole thing. So instead of it taking you a month, it takes you an hour to do a lot of things.

Richard Matthews: Right.

Thomas Ryan: So that’s why people use frameworks. But anyway, we’re sponsoring a coding competition for all the best people in India who work with this framework within PHP. And you know, I’m just so excited about doing that to be able to, you know, find that talent pool of people who are exceptional and allow them to prove their worth rather than find the people who are the best marketers you know, I think is gonna be really special.

Richard Matthews: Yeah that’s really cool. So, if I’m hearing you correctly, super power comes from just a background and actually real world experience and then applying that to solving a real world problem with some of these new tools.

Thomas Ryan: Correct. That’s it. [00:34:00] It’s, you know, I grew up in a space, I didn’t love it. Right? It wasn’t what I wanted to do with my life. I like building the tools. So being able to do that and, you know, I just, I’ve always kind of been able to see where things are going, you know, it’s just something I’ve been born with. I’ve been able to see like, you know, I’ve had very good vision generally about where things are going.

Not always not so much with social trends and things like that, but a lot of global macro stuff and just, it’s this is gonna change the world more in five years than the internet did in the last twenty-five. This is going change life so much for people. They just don’t understand it.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. It is dramatic and like, it was the kind of thing that, like the first couple of months I was like, what is this? Why do I even care? And like two months later I’m like, oh. Is this is world-changing the way that everything else it’s promised to be world-changing, is actually going to be world-changing. It’s gonna be like internet, iPhone, AI.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah. Well, it’s the internet and then it was the internet on your phone. Right? Because before that, [00:35:00] the, you couldn’t really use the internet on your phone. It was unusable. And now this is going to actually do things for you. You know, you can give it any question, like, remember when Ask Jeeves came out?

Richard Matthews: Oh yeah.

Thomas Ryan: To be able to ask it anything, it would tell you the answer. Well, this, you can ask it anything. It gives you the answer. If it’s a very complex, multi-step problem with, you know, a thousand different data points that you need to grab, it’s gonna tell you, yeah, it’s too much computing power for me right now.

Why don’t you look it up? It doesn’t say the first part, but it’s like, oh, maybe you can find that data source over here. Here’s a link to a website. Right? But if it’s any specific one-part question, it’ll just give you the answer now.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. It’s crazy. Like one of the things that I did. Just over this course of this last week is I was working on a spreadsheet to help work on like margins, cost of labor across our whole company. And I wanted to get access to data that I was like, I know formulas to do this kind of stuff exist, but like, I don’t have a degree in Excel.

And in order to do the kind of math that I [00:36:00] wanted it to do, you would need a degree in Excel. And like, so I’d have to hire someone who has a degree in Excel. So I went and looked for people who have degree in Excel that’s, you know, upwards of 50 to $80 an hour, if not more. Right? To find someone who can do that work.

So I just went to ChatGPT and loaded up my spreadsheet and I was like, here’s the data points I care about. Here’s the data I want. Can you tell me how to write the formulas done two seconds later.

Thomas Ryan: Absolutely. And it’s like that with everything. And it’s like that with everything. Or maybe you’re paying 20 bucks a month, right?

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: Something, but it’s everything is like that. What you were talking about building app before I did the same thing. I was trying to set up, and I’m not an engineer by trade, right?

So I was trying to set up AutoGPT on my computer just to play around with it when that first came out. And it was like, oh, you need to do some coding for this. So I put it into ChatGPT and it gave me all the Python libraries. It showed me how to download all these different Python libraries and how to pull all this data in and like I got it up and running.

It took me three or four hours, but. You know, if [00:37:00] before this existed, I don’t think I would’ve been able to do that in a year, and probably would’ve given up on it well before then, right?

Richard Matthews: Instead you succeeded in a few hours and maybe a couple of words.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and then you take it, like it didn’t work. So I would take the error and I put it back in. I say, Hey, gave me this error. I was like, oh my God, we must have done something wrong. Do this, and this, you know, and spits out answer. And I plug that in that one works.

I’m like it’s unbelievable. Where was this? I mean, this is why I gave up programming when I was in college. I, they gave me like a Fortran project or something when I was at Tulane. And you know, I remember one night I couldn’t figure out what the bug was and I was working on it for like six hours and I’m like, yeah, this isn’t for me.

Because gonna do it. I’m like, this is just brutal. I’m beating my head against the wall. I don’t know what’s wrong with this. I’ve been staring at this for hours and I can’t figure it out. But you give it to the machine, go and 10 seconds later, oh, here’s the error, and this is what it means. And this is where your code is wrong, and here’s the new [00:38:00] code. Okay.

Richard Matthews: To fix it. Yeah, I was doing that with the app development that I did, and I’d be like, oh, it didn’t work. Here’s the error that it popped up. And I would be like, here’s all the documents you need to reference to find the error. And it would be like, oh, found the error. Here’s the mistake I made.

I rewrote the page for you. Put that back in there and see what it does now. And I’d do that and it would put it out and be like, oh, we got a different error now let’s progress. Like here’s the new error.

Thomas Ryan: Absolutely. But, and now it has access to everything ever written on Stack Overflow. So it used to be like these developers, what they’re saying now is, it used to be a ten-year engineer was a lot more valuable than a guy like right outta school ’cause he would have this experience. But they’re saying now the engineers come outta school are as good as the people who’ve been doing it for a decade.

And the reason is because they’re not afraid to use this tool. Their ego isn’t too big, so they run into something that they don’t know how to do. And boop, it just gives them the answer. And a lot of the engineers I’m dealing with, they’re like, if there’s something I don’t like doing, like I don’t like scripting, I don’t like, you know, doing front-end design.

So I wanna make a green button with some shading. I’ll say, Hey, gimme a green [00:39:00] button with some shading, and here’s the code. And it might’ve taken them four hours to do it before, and now it takes them a couple of seconds.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. The world is not prepared for how quickly it’s going to shift.

Thomas Ryan: No and this is version one. I mean, this is, we’re 1994 level, right? The, you know, this is the internet where it’s still that modem, right? It’s still making beeping on you.

Richard Matthews: It’s making beeping noises. The ChatGPT equivalent of beeping noises is you’ve run out of requests for the hour.

Thomas Ryan: It’s just gonna advance at, you know, four times the speed that the internet did or faster, maybe eight times the speed. I mean, just in the exponential growth people. I can’t wrap my mind around that. If it advances a million fold in the next five to 10 years, what does that look like?

I have no idea, but I know it’s gonna be startling. I mean, I know it’s gonna be amazing. Even like the picture stuff that they looked at, the pictures that you had. So I don’t know if you played around with all, any of the imaging tools

Richard Matthews: I have [00:40:00] all of them.

Thomas Ryan: With all of them. Oh, okay. Which is your favorite.

Richard Matthews: Right now Dall-E 3 inside of ChatGPT-4 because it writes the prompts for you, which was my biggest problem with mid Journey three was like I couldn’t, or mid journey five or whatever. I was like, I couldn’t get it to do the same thing, and now I’m able to get. I’m able to get really specific things out of Dall-E 3 because of GPT-4 integration.

Thomas Ryan: Mid-Journey still isn’t quite as good with the prompts, but their stuff just looks amazing.

Richard Matthews: It does really good.

Thomas Ryan: I mean, just amazing. So if you look at the Mid-Journey stuff, like a year and a half ago, like you would still have like kind of holes in pictures and it wouldn’t look that good. Well, we went to doing marketing stuff.

I mean, I could screw up a stick figure. I can barely draw, right? Like, you know, drawing is not one of my talents. I put a prompt in and we used to for our marketing stuff, and I’m like, Hey, marketing team, like, go this. You know, I don’t want to hear like, you can’t get an image for something or something is, you know, copywritten.

Just go in [00:41:00] there and put it in and 10 seconds later you have some pictures and if you don’t like them, you know, 10, more seconds, you got some more pictures. And you know, we ended up using it. So we put together like 20 or 30, you know, sales brochures and we did it in an afternoon, you know?

Richard Matthews: Crazy. So, I wanna switch gears a little bit and talk about the flip side of your superpower, right? So the superpower comes from like that, having a background in real-world expertise and bringing that to solving real-world problems, right? So the fatal flaw is generally the flip side of your superpower, right?

And just like every Superman has their kryptonite or wonder woman has their bracelets of victory that she can’t remove without going mad you probably have something that’s held you back in your business, right? For me, it was a couple of things. I struggled with perfectionism for a long time, so it may kept me from shipping product into the marketplace.

And then I also struggled with lack of self-care, which really, you know, came out in like, not having good boundaries with my time or good boundaries with my clients and let people walk all over me fixed a lot of those things over the course of growing my company. But I think more important than what your flaw is how have you worked to overcome it so you could continue to grow and continue to succeed?

Thomas Ryan: So I can tell you one of my fatal [00:42:00] flaws is I think I’ve almost crippling ADHD, right? Where you know, I have to turn things off. I can’t have my ringer on my phone. I hear that stupid thing beep. And, you know, I’m like, Pavlov’s dog, I’m, oh, what did I get? You know, what’s next? What do I have, right? It’s very hard for me to focus on what I should be doing, you know, and especially if you know anything about ADHD, well, I’m in charge of an organization, put you in charge of an organization. I work from home. I’m by myself. No one around is watching me. Right?

There’s really no kind of penalty if I’m not doing something correctly, and then any of the procrastination and stuff, right? So it’s how do I schedule and organize my time in such a way to, to get these tasks done, to get the things done that need to be accomplished to, and you know, for me, it has to be organizational systems.

If I [00:43:00] don’t use organizational systems, if I don’t have something on my calendar, it doesn’t exist. You know, and I tell my system, like, make sure I make my calls right? Like, give me a call if I have something I have to do. Like it’s your job to make sure I show up because I mean, shoot, it’s like 50/50, I’m not gonna be there, you know, unless I’m meeting the president or something.

Like, you know, unless it’s hugely important. Like make sure I show up to stuff where I’m supposed to be because I get to distracted with something I’m, you know, thinking about something else. And, you know, it’s a time management issue. Time is hard for me. So, you know, my wife gets pissed off all the time that, you know, it’s like you said, we were leaving at five.

And I’m like, yeah, what time is it? And they’re like, it’s five. And I’m like, oh, okay, well just gimme a couple minutes to finish up and I’ll, you know, we’ll. Right. But I it’s hard for me to do that. So any organizational things that I can do that automate my [00:44:00] life are helpful. And then it’s remembering to use the organizational system, that’s the automation, right?

Remembering to actually do the thing that, you know, like I, you have a system like, okay, you just have to set your alarm for the morning. It’s like, did I remember to set the alarm? Didn’t I remember to set? Look I dunno if I’m making sense.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. I have sort of a similar sort of thing. I don’t think I’d probably be on the ADHD spectrum, but very similar in like the you know, if it’s not on the calendar, it doesn’t exist kind of thing. And then I have to make sure that like, the notifications are turned on for all the calendar events ’cause if it doesn’t pop up and ding me, like that’s why I wear the watch, right? ’cause the watch will ding me. It’ll be like, it’ll buzz on my wrist and be like, you have a meeting right now? And I’m like, oh, that’s useful. Because if I, otherwise it doesn’t matter. Whereas if it was written on a piece of paper that I had a meeting at 12 o’clock, it would.

Thomas Ryan: I have to do a lot of lists too. I do a lot of lists like, Hey, what are the five most important things I need to get accomplished? And then it’s really prioritizing, right? So like I tell people, if you wanna reach me, don’t send me an email because email is someone else taking my time.

And most of my emails are spam, they’re junk, they’re not important. So I’m like, if there’s something that’s an [00:45:00] important task that you want a semi-immediate response to send me a text message because I have my telegram and I have my WhatsApp and I have my text messages and I have my Slack and I have my email.

And of course I don’t have one email. I have like five different emails, right? And you know, now I’m having people try to ping me on all these different things. And if I just tried to read every message I got, it would take up all 8 hours of my day, or all 10 hours of my day. I could spend, you know, literally every minute of my day just trying to read emails.

Right? So, you know, it’s how do you prioritize what’s the most important things that get done? So I try to make sure what are the four or five most important things I need to accomplish today? And I make sure I get those done first thing in the morning when I come in. What’s the highest priority thing that I need to get done? Work on that now.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: Right, so, and you know, then what’s number two on my list? Work on that next. So trying to do time boxing, you can do the time boxing type [00:46:00] strategies. But really just saying, okay, do some sort of brain dump. What are the most important things that need to be happen, right? And let’s make sure I’m focusing on that and not on busy work, right?

I don’t wanna be focusing on $10 an hour work. I want to be focusing on the things are going to make the organization a successful. And it changes all the time, right? Maybe it’s dealing with my creative team, maybe it’s dealing with, you know, my engineering team. Maybe it’s dealing with some marketing problem or sales problem or what, you know, whatever it might be. And it’s always different,

Richard Matthews: Yeah. I know for me, one of the things that was really helpful was it’s two things. One is a concept I call microcompletions. And so microcompletions are just the idea that you have take something whatever time, you know, ’cause time blocking is like, Hey, I’m gonna work on this thing from this period to this period.

Right. You know, whatever. That’s like time blocking. And I always, I take it to the next level, be like, I have this amount of time, right? I’ve got an hour, or I’ve got 20 minutes, or I’ve got 10 minutes. What’s something that I can take from start to finish in that period? Right? And so, and then [00:47:00] less emphasis on the you know, like what’s the most important thing and more emphasis on the let’s what’s something that I can complete and complete means, like deployed. Right? And so if I can deploy something in the time that I have stacking completions, snowballs really fast.

Thomas Ryan: It’s great man.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. And so that was the one thing that I, that really helped me do those things. And then the other one that really helped was restricting the amount of time that I allowed work to be in my life. And which is counterintuitive to getting more work done. But it, they worked together, right? So when I started off five or six years ago. I was working 10, 12 hours a day. And like we eight and a half x our company last year on an average of four hours a day, four days a week, so like 16 hour work weeks.

And that progress to go from, you know, 12 hour days, 8, you know, 7 days a week, right? To 4 hours a day, 4 days a week, was really on this concept of like, Hey, what happens if I reduce the amount of time that I allow myself to work? And you realize that creativity thrives with restrictions.

It always does, right? If you put restrictions in place, creativity [00:48:00] thrives. So I started like, how can I apply that to time? And what would happen then is, okay, I’ve only got 6 hours to work today. I’ve only got 8 hours to work today. I’ve only got five hours to work today. I’ve only got 4 days this week. Right? What it does is it automatically squeezes the most important completions to the top. Like, okay I’ve got this amount of time, what can I complete? And it’s like you start stacking those completions because you restricted the amount of time that you have.

Then you start making really big progress. And so when I was new at this, one of the things that I started doing was to your end. Putting things on my calendar that I were important to me and I didn’t want to miss otherwise. So I’d like actually like plan a date with my four-year-old. Be like, Hey, at 4 o’clock today we’re going to the park and we’re gonna go get ice.

Thomas Ryan: I do that all the time.

Richard Matthews: Calendar, right? And it’s like something that I, someone else would be disappointed if I didn’t show up. And now I’m like, now with those kind of things all sort of together, it’s allowed me to really stack a lot of important completions together. And that’s helped my brain that has a similar kind of thing where like I’ll get lost and do all sorts of things that are irrelevant.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah I think lots of people have that issue. I mean, I don’t think I’m unique in any way, shape or form [00:49:00] with this the agile methodology of doing things as well. Breaking large complex tasks down into a day worth of work, a couple hours worth of work, you know, and then completing that task and then moving on to the next one.

And then usually try and do the hardest tasks first, rather than like, so a lot of people say, I’m gonna do all these easy things. I’m gonna leave this hard thing for the end. And, you know, then you just never get to the hard thing or with engineering, sometimes the whole thing falls apart at that point, right?

Because we’ve done the easy tasks and then we go to do the main meat of it, and then the guys can’t figure out how to do it.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: So you always wanna do that proof of concept kind of first and do the hardest piece of it first. One of the ways I used to hire for engineers is I would give them a task. I’d say, okay, what’s the hardest task I’m trying to do right now? And say, Hey, can you do this in a day? Right. And see if they could actually do it. And if they could do it, they got the job. So that was one of the other kind of tricks that I would use on this, and that worked pretty well for me.

We still do some of [00:50:00] that. One other thing along the lines of what you were talking about between the agile methodology on this and doing, breaking everything down a small task and doing the hardest things first is trying to automate as much as humanly possible, where I hate having to do work over and over if there’s a system that I can create to automate that stuff. Where I don’t have to remember it, then I’m like, ah. Like, ah, crap, I forgot that I, there was something important I forgot.

Like, I’m just thinking there’s someone, I gotta pay a bill, right? There’s this bill I gotta pay for, you know, someone doing some landscaping on my place and I’ve forgot about it and I forgot about it yesterday and I forgot about today ’cause it wasn’t super high on my priority list. But I gotta do it. If there’s anything where I can start automating these tasks where I can either delegate it, right? As you’re growing a business, you have to be able to delegate, you know, it’s delegate and then inspect, right? That’s delegate and inspect.

If you delegate and you don’t inspect, you know, it’s garbage in, garbage out. But you know, delegate and inspect are huge. And then [00:51:00] automate what can be automated and with sales type stuff, right? If you get a hundred leads in a month and you have to reach out to someone 10 or 20 times, right? Well now there’s 2000 contact points. Right? That’s one full-time person making a hundred calls a day. If it’s on the phone or sending out all those texts.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: You know, if you’re getting in more leads than that, right? And you don’t reach them all and they start stacking. And if you actually have to do follow up where you aren’t just getting in, you know, new people, but you’re following up with the same people, which it’s typically much easier to sell to the same person multiple times than to just find new people all the time, which most businesses don’t get.

You know, it starts becoming a Herculean labor to actually do the amount of follow that’s necessary to get all these sales.

Richard Matthews: I have, like, currently my CRM dashboard is sitting behind our little window here. I have over a hundred people that I need to follow up with. And like, you know, [00:52:00] and I also have a company to run, right. So, and I’m like it’s.

Thomas Ryan: So you either need to hire someone to do it and see if they can do that for you, or you need to start automating it. And what we’re working on is the automation piece. And because of my weakness is probably why I feel this is so important. But I think if you throw enough scale at anyone, it becomes anyone’s weakness.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, absolutely. So I want to to shift and talk a little bit about your common enemy, right? So every superhero has an arch nemesis and in it’s a thing that they constantly have to fight against in their world. And in the world of business, it takes on a lot of forms. But for the context of this conversation, we like to put it in terms of your clients, right?

So the people that might be hiring Bigly S ales, it’s a mindset or a flaw that you’re coming up against that you have to constantly fight to overcome, so you can actually get them the results that they came to you for in the first place. So, I know you’re in a really new space, so there’s probably a lot of mindsets and flaws that you’re running into, but what is your arch nemesis right now in the growth of Bigly Sales?

Thomas Ryan: I mean, it’s really just trying to set [00:53:00] something up in a way that people have the best chance of succeeding. Right? It’s you know, having them listen and say, Hey what are we seeing that’s the most successful? And showing them that. So for example, people are like, oh, just send a Calendly link with what we’re doing and we’ve tried it and it doesn’t work well.

People look at it as homework, right? They hate the Calendly links ’cause you’re now giving them a task to do, right? So I never want someone give me homework. It’s the same thing where I’m like, Hey, I’m having a problem trying to use your product and I’m talking to customer support and they’re like, why don’t you read these five articles that we’ve written that may or may not have anything to do with what you need done?

And then you spend a half hour reading the articles and you’re like, nope. Didn’t help at all. Thanks for that time suck, because now I’m even more on the whole, right? So I mean, which is how most companies handle it, right? So like they’re giving you more work to do instead of making your life easier. So.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, and a lot of the chat programs actually like do that by design, right? So like I know on a lot of like software services now [00:54:00] you pull up their little chat and you’re like, I have a problem. And you put in a thing and it’s like, here’s four articles I found that might have solutions to your problem. I’m like, I don’t wanna read your four articles. I want you to fix the problem.

Thomas Ryan: That’s it. I’m coming for you to help fix my problem. If it was an easy problem to fix, I would’ve fixed it already.

Richard Matthews: I could have searched your help documents myself, right? I pulled up this live chat I to talk to a human to help me solve the problem.

Thomas Ryan: And I’m trying to get it done quickly, and it’s probably a little more important because I’m actually on here at nine o’clock at night or whatever doing it. Yeah, I mean it, it’s, and again, that’s one of the pain points that we’re fighting to correct, to take the nightmare of customer support, the nightmare of call centers today. The nightmare of scheduling and use AI to fix all those issues.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. I have companies that you should, like, reach out to and fix for them. You know, things for them. Like, just like, here’s a list, fix it for all of these people and make my life better.

Thomas Ryan: Like Comcast and AT&T. If I could ever get Comcast and AT&T, I’m gonna keep talking trash about [00:55:00] them.

Richard Matthews: And every bank on the planet. So,

Thomas Ryan: Have you used Bank of America before?

Richard Matthews: Oh man. We use, our bank is really good actually, but like still they have their automated teller who picks up and I’m like. If I could just skip the automated teller and you could have a human being an operator that just sent me to the right place, it would take two seconds. And, but because they don’t wanna, they have too much volume to have that person do it, right?

Their automated tellers are just I don’t know another word to use it, other than they’re retarded, like by the actual dictionary definition, they are retarded and incapable of accomplishing the tasks that they have been assigned to do.

Thomas Ryan: I mean, so I was in downtown Miami. I used to live in downtown Miami before I had little kids and I moved to the suburbs, right? And we were on this branch in Brickle, which is the financial district of downtown Miami. And they had this giant, they had the Bank of America build in. They had this giant branch there, and they made a decision to eliminate all but one teller.

I think they decide to do this in all of their branches. So you’d go in [00:56:00] to deal with them and they would have an hour line, a two hour line, something like that. I love Chase. Chase is great. Like they’re my new bank. They’re awesome. I would recommend everyone to move away from Bank of America to Chase.

But to call customer support there, it’s a half hour, right? If I’m calling AT&T or someone like that for customer support, half hour, if you’re lucky, if I’m calling Comcast, my clicker has been broken in my living room for like, you know, a year now. I just refused to call Comcast. It’s just such a painful process and it’s like, I’m relaxing, I’m gonna watch a football game or something. It’s like, do I wanna call Comcast and ruin my day? And I’m like, eh, not today. You know,

Richard Matthews: I’ll just deal with the broken clicker for.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah, I can still kind of push it in with my pinky if I try the thing.

Richard Matthews: You know, it’s painful when you’ll live with the problem for a year rather than call customer service.

Thomas Ryan: There was this thing that I saw the other day. I’m like, maybe it’s just me. Like maybe I’m the only one who feels this way and I’m unique. And I saw this [00:57:00] thing that 30% of Americans would rather shave their head than deal with customer service. And I’m pretty sure they’re talking about like HomeCast and AT&T.

Those are like the home. Those are like, I called this and now I’d like to shave my head. Like, you know, but if you can promise me I never have to do this again.

Richard Matthews: So, I think my next question is a perfect transition from that point, right? So you’re driving force. The flip side of your common enemy is you’re driving force and just like Spider-Man fights to save, you know, New York and Batman fights to save Gotham or Google’s fighting to index and categorize all the world’s information.

What is it that you’re fighting for? What’s your mission with Bigly Sales?

Thomas Ryan: So I wanna solve this problem. I wanna fix customer support. I wanna fix call centers. I want to make it, you know, wonderful as an experience for people and use AI to do it. And the tech is here, you know, we have it working in a sandbox environment already. So, I mean, just imagine calling into, you know, next time you call into your bank, you call Bank of [00:58:00] America, instead of getting an automated system, sweet-sounding person picks up the phone, you know, man or woman.

We’ll test different voices, right? You can do like a little spinoff of Morgan Freeman or you know, James Earl Jones or maybe Elizabeth Hurley or whatever, like whatever your favorite kind of voice is. Like, do you wanna have Hugh Grant be talking to you like during your thing? Right?

Richard Matthews: Part of your profile at the knows who your favorite voice actor is.

Thomas Ryan: That’d be amazing, right? So, you know, Hugh Grant can tell me all this stuff and now it’s hooked to ChatGPT. But ChatGPT has full access to their system. So we’ve taken all their documentation, right? All of their relevant customer information, all their support information. You’ve put it into databases, to different vector databases, and then you can kind of point to which one you wanna send it to.

So as soon as it says, oh, you say, yeah, I’m looking for some help about my account. Says, okay, we need information on accounts. Right? And it might say what sort of account are you calling about? You know, is this a credit card account or a, [00:59:00] you know, a checking account or a savings? They said, oh, I’m calling about my credit card account.

Right? So, and then it goes to that database and then, you know, can nicely ask you, you know, what’s your problem? How can I help you Mr. Ryan and, you know, be able to get the answer to your problem and do it real time? Obviously there’s gonna have to be security on there, right? They’re gonna have some sort of two factors in your cone.

By the way, I tell this to everyone, however bad you think fraud is on the internet, it is so much worse than you can possibly imagine. Just telling you it, it’s worse. Get two factor, especially on your phone, right? For all of your phone stuff for your phone pin. Like, just go do it. Like, trust me.

Get the two factor. Because if someone steals your cell phone, they could clean out your bank accounts without even knowing off topic. Sorry.

Richard Matthews: Security. Take it seriously.

Thomas Ryan: Oh God. Oh God. Is it bad out Anyway.

Richard Matthews: That popped into my head, you were talking about these agents, right? We’re talking about fixing the agents on the customer service side. One of the things we, we were talking about how like this is the very infant, like [01:00:00] beginning side of this. We’re not too far off from like your phone, having your AI assistant who knows all the stuff that you need to know, and just be.

Thomas Ryan: Coming too. That’s coming too. Like that’s.

Richard Matthews: Talk to my bank, get it taken care of and like your AI, we will talk to their AI and they’ll just solve it for you. Like, that’s not far off?

Thomas Ryan: No, it isn’t it. That’s the stuff that’s that a thousand times, million times that I haven’t even really thought about yet. I’m just trying to solve like, the one major problem in front of me right now. And then we’ll iterate. Right. You know that, that’s the Agile methodology. Solve the big thing first and then iterate from there, because you can never think enough into the future to figure out exactly everything is gonna work.

Richard Matthews: If you’re listening to this and you want to experience what he’s talking about right now, call Apple’s customer support right now because Apple’s customer support already has a generative AI voice that you talk to. And I called them a couple months ago with a problem from, with one of my son’s accounts.

We were trying to figure out what was going on with it, and it took me like. Three or four minutes of chatting with this thing on there. I was [01:01:00] like, you’re not a human being, are you? But like, it was really hard to tell that I wasn’t talking to a human being. And it did respond. It was like, you’re, no, you’re correct.

I’m an AI assistant. And, but, you know, are you having a problem with like, my service right now? I was like, no, it’s actually, it’s working really well.

Thomas Ryan: Best service I’ve ever had.

Richard Matthews: And it, they got me directly to the person that could help me in minutes. And I was blown away by that. And I was like, you know, that’s not far, that’s not far off for a lot of companies because of, you know, what you are building, what you’re helping people build.

Right. You know, Apple’s got all the resources in the world to do that, but not every company does.

Thomas Ryan: If there’s a competitor, I don’t know who they are, but whoever did the AI for Five Guys Burger for their ordering system, it’s phenomenal.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, right.

Thomas Ryan: So if you wanna see another one that actually works well at the moment, the guys who did Five Guys Burger I haven’t figured out who it is yet, but like, if I wanna order something from Five Guys, Burger, it takes my order.

It does it better than a human. It asks me anything I want, it gets any order, it [01:02:00] gets any change. Like it gets everything right. It reads it back to me and like.

Richard Matthews: On the phone, huh? I’m gonna have to call.

Thomas Ryan: On the phone. Yeah. Like and plus five guys, Burger is absolutely delicious.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. Maybe you make good burgers. Yeah. And so like to your end, I’m really looking forward to seeing more and more of that take over the customer service because the couple of times that I’ve actually experienced it done well, it is worlds apart different than talking to the retarded phone automation system. They can’t get you to the right, you know, they send me.

Thomas Ryan: Stuff. It’s so bad. It’s so bad. And then I don’t wanna listen to something you, our menu has recently changed. Please listen to everything we have to say. And I’m there for like a minute or two and I’m losing my mind. I’m going I don’t have much time right now.

Richard Matthews: Said you have kids, right? How old are your kids right now?

Thomas Ryan: I got a 1-year-old, a 5-year-old and a 9-year-old.

Richard Matthews: So you understand the problem with talking to a voice activated system with customer service where they’re like, please read out the numbers of whatever, and then you try to read them out [01:03:00] and then, you know, 14 times in the time of you reading out the number back to them, one of your children screamed and said something else and it can no longer understand you because you know, you’re having to talk to a system in the midst of chaos, the chaos of having children.

It’s, you know, the kind of things that a human being could handle, but like the, you know, the automated systems can’t. But you get into some of these AI systems, they can handle that. They can understand which voice is yours and which one isn’t.

Thomas Ryan: I mean, it’s really impressive. It really is. It’s, and you haven’t met my children. They’re not calm, so.

Richard Matthews: Yeah, not calm. I know that’s like, I have three little girls and this 14-year-old son, but my three little girls are like four, seven, and 10. They shriek constantly. I’m, you know, surprised today they haven’t shrieked while we’ve been on this this thing. But yeah, they’re, I’m like, when we, I have to call the bank.

I’m like, listen, you guys go outside. I’m gonna be on the phone with the bank for the next 10 minutes trying to get to the right representative. And if you mess it up, I have to.

Thomas Ryan: 10 minutes. Oh. If it was only 10 minutes, it wouldn’t be that bad. I mean, usually, so, I mean, that’s what I want to fix. That’s my nemesis. Right. To, if I can fix the. If I can fix those [01:04:00] automated systems, if I can make it so you never have to wanna shave your head again, right? That you can get through to who you need to talk to.

They can, it can do it with a computer. It can answer your question for you, for any level One support question you may have for anything that you’re calling for. Anything at the bank, for anything at AT&T. For anything at Comcast, it can do, it can troubleshoot right now instead of some guy, you know, in Guatemala or something who’s trying to answer your questions for you about your tv.

It has all the documentation on your tv, right? Oh, try this. What’s your serial number? Where do I find the serial number? The serial number is gonna be on the bottom. What type of TV do you have? I got a Sony, right? 60 inch. I don’t really know the serial model. Okay. It’s gonna be on the bottom side, you know, bottom right.

If you look underneath, oh, there it is. Okay. Punch in that number. All right, based on your model, here’s exactly what you need to do. Hold the remote, hold these two buttons, do this, do that. Walk you through it, fix your problem. Right? I mean, it’s gonna be able to do things we only [01:05:00] dreamed of it. It’s gonna be, you know, the know everything tool.

All you have to do is set up the information incorrectly and, you know, put it in vector databases so it can find it. And you know that’s not that hard a problem to do. It’s not that hard to create buckets like S3 buckets where you can go and just find the data that you need. So, you know, that’s what I wanna work on.

I wanna fix this problem once and all, you know, from the consumer standpoint and then from the business standpoint better, faster, cheaper. Right? Better, faster, cheaper. I mean, that’s it. It’s gonna, you’re gonna get rid of the waiting line issue where half the time you’ve guys sitting around twiddling their thumbs, the other half the time there’s a half hour wait, right?

You’re gonna get rid of and then everyone gets on the phone and just live it because they’ve just been waiting for a half hour. You know, it’s gonna fix the, it’s gonna fix those problems. It’s gonna fix someone, giving you the wrong information, someone telling you the wrong thing. So Right. You’re never gonna have wrong information again.

You’re always gonna have you know, we use it as the single [01:06:00] source of truth that the information that we enter into the system, there might be something different on the internet, but this is the source of truth that the AI uses, right? You know, so, I mean, it’s just gonna fix all, it’s gonna fix the hiring issue.

I don’t know if you’ve tried to hire recently, but it’s not that easy. Especially if you’re trying to hire onsite, God, right? You need people in a physical building and now you need everyone within 10 miles of where you are, and you need to get. A thousand of them, or you need to get a hundred of them, like good luck, you know?

So I mean, it just fixes all of these issues. The training problem, the hiring problem. Now you gotta train one system

Richard Matthews: Yeah, so.

Thomas Ryan: Now you gotta set up.

Richard Matthews: People need to start looking at solving these problems if you want to remain competitive in the business space. There are businesses that are already working on this. There’s businesses like yours that are helping businesses like mine solve these problems. And if you don’t, you won’t be able to compete with me.

You won’t be able to compete with other companies that are implementing these things.

Thomas Ryan: you’re gonna have no chance. I think the companies that early adopters at [01:07:00] this end up winning you know, the big global tech companies just get more valuable. The Primarily because of this tech. Right? So I can’t think of a company that, you know, them doing VC type stuff in the past. Like, what’s the last time you heard Apple writes them in a billion dollar check or Amazon or Google writes them in a billion dollar check as their VC.

I know they’ve a VC arm, but I mean, Microsoft put $10 billion into this.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: What do they see?

Richard Matthews: Last year.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah, last year. What do they see? Amazon put $4 billion in, right? Facebook has their own division. I think they I forget who else put another couple of billion into this, you know, Tesla, what does Elon see? I mean, the smartest people who know the most about this stuff are putting in tens of billions of dollars. These are the guys in the know.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. And it’s like Apple’s got billions of dollars in research and development. They just released a, one of their open models on it. That’s, you know, it’s an image recognition model that’s ridiculous. So it’s called [01:08:00] ferret. I think it’s super cool if you haven’t played that one yet, yeah, everyone who has a stake in the game is putting major investments.

Thomas Ryan: I mean, Facebook is putting billions in, you know, apple is putting billions in Tesla is putting billions in. Microsoft put in, I mean, it’s 10 billion plus, you know, it’s, I’ve never seen this level of investment kind of anywhere at this short a period of time. I mean.

Richard Matthews: Oh yeah, we’re talking like since January of last year to January of this year. Billions in every sector.

Thomas Ryan: And these aren’t dumb guys.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: Nadella and.

Richard Matthews: They didn’t accidentally build multi-billion dollar companies.

Thomas Ryan: This isn’t the short bus doing this. Right. You know, Bezos and like, you know, these are the smartest guys in the room and they’re all like, oh my God, we’re all in.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

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Now back to the Hero show.

Richard Matthews: So I think that’s a great place to sort of, get to the end of our interview. I have one more question for you. It’s about your guiding principles. One of the things that makes heroes heroic is that they live by a code. You know, for instance, Batman never kills his enemies. He only ever puts him in Arkham Asylum.

So as we wrap up the interview, I wanna talk about the top one, maybe two principles that you live your life by you run your business by. Maybe something you’d wish you’d known when you first started your business when you first got in your career.

Thomas Ryan: I try to high hold very high standards for people, right? We want very high standards, but you know, we never wanna be duplicitous in what we do. We always wanna be honest. I want to treat people honestly. I want them [01:11:00] to know that I’m gonna stand by my word. I think these things are very important, that you need to be honest and be trusted.

And, you know, if you look at the people that I’m working with, I have a couple guys who worked with me at a previous company, you know, so, most of my team has been with me, even though it’s a new business. For a few years now, right? That, you know, I have, my customer success guys have been with me for five plus years.

My data person’s been with me for five plus years. I have some new staff on the engineering side because we just went a different direction with the, you know, the tech tools that we were doing. But, you know, I think you have to be honest with people. You have to set clear expectations with people. You need to hold high levels of accountability and, you know, those are the principles I try to run my business by.

You know, just be honest and genuine and set expectations and be very clear about what those expectations are. And then, you know, for me, if I say, Hey, this is the [01:12:00] standard, and you know, we agree on that upfront, right? I agree with you. Hey, this is what we’re gonna do. Right? And this is what I expect.

And are you on board? You know, is that work for you? And the people are like, yeah, that sounds great. And then they don’t meet that standard, right? Well then it’s a very easy conversation. Hey, we talked about what we expected. We’re not where we need to be. What do we need to do to get there? You know?

And it’s either that you manage them in or you manage them out, right? And just having those conversations and that’s how you deal with people. I think that’s the most important thing, because your people, the tech is gonna be great, but still, you know, and all these companies say this and they never mean it.

I actually mean this. Your people are your strength. If you hire really good, smart, courteous, you know, hard-working people things are gonna go well. I have a no-jerk rule, right? Like, if someone’s a jerk in the organization. I don’t need ’em. I don’t [01:13:00] care how talent they are. I don’t care if they’re the top sales rep.

I’ve done it before. It’s just not worth it. Right? I don’t care if they’re the best in engineerer. Right? If they’re gonna treat everyone else like a jerk and they’re gonna break things and they’re gonna be, you know, inconsiderate and they’re, I mean, you don’t, you know, people talk about like the rockstar programmer, right?

I don’t want the guy coming in who’s gonna trash the hotel room and throw the couch out the window, right? I don’t want the rockstar, you know, I want the person who is gonna do things the right way.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: Maybe the country star. I guess it depends on which you one.

Richard Matthews: Yeah. And it’s, that’s a fascinating thought too. One of, you know, just in the context of AI, right? And people, one of the things that AI is going to do is it’s gonna make businesses less tolerant of people who are not going to show up well, right? Because if you’re going to use AI to make super humans, you want, you know, you don’t wanna make super villains.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah.

Richard Matthews: Right? It’s gonna upcycle just the quality of people, right? ’cause you’re gonna have to, if you want to be [01:14:00] commercially viable, your rockstar ability will pale in comparison to the AI tools. It’s just going to, so you’re going to have the cultural skills, the soft skills, all the other things that go along with that.

The things that actually enhance the AI, right? The cultural understanding and the human connection and the ability to, you know, feed it good data, understanders, like the ability to work together well with it is going to be what’s more valuable going forward. And it’s gonna be less of that, you know, rocks, our ability.

Thomas Ryan: Yeah. No, I mean for sure, for sure. But it’s just if you’re clear and you set clear expectations. I mean, I think that is really the most important thing to set your vision, set what you want to do. Set clear expectations. Set high standards is what ends up happening. If you don’t set high standards, if you say, you know, we’re gonna just let these guys kind of mess around and half the guys don’t have to do anything, then you have the other half of the guys who are really working hard.

The guys who are [01:15:00] working really hard are saying, well, these guys are doing nothing. Why am I the jerk who’s working so hard when they’re not doing anything? And what ends up happening is everyone’s level comes down here.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: Right? So as soon as that’s tolerated and acceptable, and the organization. You know, and I like leading by example where I can, I mean, it’s, you know, I want people to see that I’m working hard, I’m doing what I’m supposed to do. I’m setting the right direction for the company and the organization and you know, doing as much as I can again, while delegating all the stuff that I should.

But , I think you need to set the tone for it personally, and it’s just, you can’t accept that stuff. Or you just, you know, all the good players wanna leave. They either quit or they just say, why am I working hard? Because, you know, it’s you know, no one else is, right? So you see that commercial with the monkeys where all the monkeys are in the room, and the one guy’s like, I’m trying to do my work. And you’re surrounded by the monkeys. So if you allow that.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: The good guys [01:16:00] all leave.

Richard Matthews: So what I want to do then is, you know, I think that’s a good place to wrap our interview ’cause it’s so true. You have to run your organization the way that you know, with the integrity and the value that you want. But I finish every interview with a simple challenge. I call it the Hero’s Challenge, and it’s just to help us get access to stories we might not otherwise find on our own.

So the question is simple. Do you have someone in your life or in your network who you think has a cool entrepreneurial story? Who are they? First names are fine. And why do you think they should come share their story with us here on The Hero Show?

First person that comes to mind for you.

Thomas Ryan: First person who comes to mind, who is a cool entrepreneurial story. You know what, I’ll tell you my friend Micah, so I told him I was doing this podcast yesterday. He was like, that’s so cool. I can’t believe that. And he’s also working on a lot of AI stuff and he is you know, he’s very technical.

Richard Matthews: Yeah.

Thomas Ryan: So, I would thank him because, you know, he is taken a very unusual path and, you know, done a lot of different things in marketing and, you know, with [01:17:00] AI so.

Richard Matthews: Well, we will reach out afterwards and see if we can get an introduction to Micah. Maybe he’ll come on the show, maybe he won’t. But sometimes we get cool stories that way. So thank you for that. And then the last part of our interview in comic books, there’s always the crowd of people at the end who are cheering and clapping for the acts of heroism.

So as we close, what I would wanna do is find out where can people get your help? If they want help in their sales organization to build this AI stuff in where can they go? And then number two is who are the right types of people to raise their hands and actually reach out?

Thomas Ryan: So BiglySales.com, you know, we’re gonna be helping everyone, right? We’re gonna help everyone with their sales organization, with our SMS tools and our email tools and our voice tools. We can help pretty much everyone. Right now we’re dealing with home services, insurance, and legal, right?

Those are the verticals that I’m dealing with at the moment. We will expand beyond that. So, anyone who needs to be able to deal with a volume of leads coming in to automate the response to those leads, to follow up with those leads until either we say, [01:18:00] stop, right? Like someone says, stop ’cause we follow the TPCA rules very seriously.

We’re doing everything TCPA compliant. Our lawyer actually is the lawyer for the industry group that goes and testifies in front of the FCC and the FTC. So we’re doing everything by the book. So I mean, if you wanna do business that way you know, come and we would love to help you out and get that set up for you.

And then anyone with a large call center organization, you know anyone employing hundreds of people in a call center setting anyone who has a large customer support organization or a large customer support workload, we can set up the AI to automate this process for you, improve your customer experience, have happier customers, and cut your costs.

Richard Matthews: Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on today. Really appreciate getting to have you here on the show and to tell your story and just in terms of those things, I’m gonna stick around for a couple minutes afterwards ’cause I have some introductions I wanna make for you just in that space ’cause I know some organizations that I think will be really useful for what you [01:19:00] do.

And I know if you’re thinking about this now and you have an organization, you’re doing sales, this stuff is not the kind of stuff that you wanna put off till next year. Not that it’ll be too late, it’s that other people will be beating you to it. Take the time, look into these technologies, figure out how you can implement them if not in sales and customer service and other areas, right? We’re doing a lot in service delivery. It’s really important. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story today, Thomas. Appreciate your time.

You got any final words of wisdom for our audience for this stop record button?

Thomas Ryan: Final words. I mean, I’m talking to some companies right now that can save 10 to a hundred million a year by putting this in. I mean, these are not small numbers. We’re talking just massive numbers for these businesses. So that’s my last word of wisdom, that this is such a game changer for companies. You know, we’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars if it’s a larger organization.

Richard Matthews: That’s awesome. Thank you very much, Thomas.

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