Episode 164 – Jennifer Grimson

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Jennifer Grimson  0:00  

My superpower based on that is, I’m a lifelong learner. So one of the best compliments I ever got was from a very young CFO, he was like 27, 28 years old, running a multi-million dollar company, and we were doing a mastermind, we were in the same mastermind, he was just a brilliant individual. And at the end of like, three or four days, he called me out and said, you are the only person I know, who has as much experience and lifetime under your belt, who is still asking questions of people my age. And I really took that to heart because it’s true, I know that I can learn from everyone, it doesn’t matter if you’re 22, and you’re a hairdresser, or whatever. And it’s the same reason why I’ve been able to pivot and shift so many times because I’m not afraid to learn. And I’m not afraid to be the dumbest person in the room. And I think I’m a smart person, I have a good friend of mine, Philip, and he says, the first time you do something, if you’re not embarrassed, you’re not doing it right. And it’s a good lesson. So I really do think that that has kept me humble, and it keeps you young, honestly, because I am constantly excited about maybe too much about different opportunities, things that people are doing, and seeing the positive on that side. And I think we get old, and I think we get stuck. When we stop learning. And when we start thinking we have nothing to gain from someone else, especially someone who looks entirely different from us. So I am proud of that. I do think that’s a superpower.

 

Richard Matthews  1:45  

Heroes are an inspiring group of people, every one of them from the larger than life comic book heroes you see on the big silver screen, the everyday heroes that let us live the privileged lives we do. Every hero has a story to tell, the doctor saving lives at your local hospital, the war veteran down the street, who risked his life for our freedom to the police officers, and the firefighters who risked their safety to ensure ours every hero is special and every story worth telling. But there was one class of heroes that I think is often ignored the entrepreneur, the creator, the producer, the ones who look at the problems in this world and think to themselves, you know what I can fix that I can help people I can make a difference. And they go out and do exactly that by creating a new product or introducing a new service. Some go on to change the world, others make a world of difference to their customers. Welcome to the Hero Show. Join us as we pull back the masks on the world’s finest hero preneurs and learn the secrets to their powers their success and their influence. So you can use those secrets to attract more sales, make more money, and experience more freedom in your business. I’m your host, Richard Matthews, and we are on in 3…2…1…

 

 

Richard Matthews  2:40  

Welcome back to the heroes show. My name is Richard Matthews. And today I have live on the line with me Jennifer Grimson. Jen, are you there?

 

Jennifer Grimson  2:47  

I am. Thank you so much for having me.

 

Richard Matthews  2:49  

Awesome. So glad to have you here. And we’ll get in a little bit to your bio in a second. But for those of you who follow along with our podcast, my wife and I are out of a Ducati in the North. We’re down in Pennsylvania again on our way back down south for our travels. And Jennifer, where are you coming from today?

 

Jennifer Grimson  3:05  

Nashville, Tennessee. 

 

Richard Matthews  3:07  

Awesome. I love Nashville. My son really liked the Pantheon when we were there because he’s sort of obsessed with Greek mythology or was at that time. And that was a cool town to be in when we went through there.

 

Jennifer Grimson  3:18  

Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. You can’t have a bad time in this town. There’s so much to do.

 

Richard Matthews  3:28  

Yeah, we went there for a business meeting one time, and it was downtown. And we got to go all through the downtown stuff and take the Ubers everywhere. In the middle of the night at 3 am you could get an Uber to pick you up and take you down to a music place that was still open and still serving food and still doing music. And I was like, That’s crazy. Because we’re from a small town in America where they roll up the sidewalks at six o’clock.

 

Jennifer Grimson  3:54  

Yeah. And it’s I don’t know when you were here last but during COVID. So much is built up down there. We live very close to downtown. So we used to go all the time we went down for the first time we had a night. It’s like a whole new city again. Nashville is so unique in that sense. There’s always music, there’s always something, it’s always open. It’s always accessible. So it’s a pretty easy place to live.

 

Richard Matthews  4:20  

Yeah, and knowing that it’s all different, we may have to go back and visit some more. So what I want to do real quick is go through your bio, so people who are listening know who you are. So Jennifer Grimson was a single mother who lost everything twice. The second time she rebuilt by creating small empires for financial independence, she’s created over $1.4 million in income, producing investments with nothing more than a W-2 and grit. In 2020. Jennifer created the micro empires podcast to share her story and to pull back the curtain on the path to financial independence. So with that brief introduction, Jennifer, why don’t you tell me a little bit about what you’re known for now, what your business is like, and who do you serve?

 

Jennifer Grimson  5:06  

I think what I’m known for honestly, and this is gonna sound really broad, but I’m really known for creating something out of nothing. So I did that in my corporate career, where I would open new markets, for businesses, and I’ve done it in my personal life, where I can start at zero and just create something from nothing through the power of just learning, and honestly grit, just keeps going. And once you get in the right direction, who I work with right now, so the podcast was a vehicle to not just tell my story, but to share, my story isn’t over, I’m still seeking financial independence. So it’s me sharing the journey along the way, and all the tools that I’m learning, because there are always tools to build wealth that are somewhat of a quote secret. And they shouldn’t be, and they’re available to all of us. So just kind of pulling back that curtain and having being identifiable enough to people that they think, I am not a financial expert, I’m not a real estate guru, I’m none of those things. I’m just a person who’s trying to build wealth, and especially after I lost everything twice, and the second time I was 41 years old. So it’s not like I got a head start at 23 years old. I think I’m known for that. And I’m also known for the fact that it’s never too late to start or to learn. And to be apart and to sort of take your place and stand in your place and claim what’s yours and what you want to achieve.

 

Richard Matthews  6:41  

Absolutely Yeah, and I love the creation from nothing, I actually took Greek and Hebrew in college. So I could learn to read the Bible in the original script. And the term I believe in Greek is Ex nihilo. Which means to create from nothing.

 

Jennifer Grimson  7:00  

Wow 

 

Richard Matthews  7:00  

And it’s considered a divine power to be able to create from nothing. So anyway, it’s a cool way to look at yourself in terms of superpowers, the ability to create from nothing. And so what I want to find out then is your origin story. Every good comic book hero has an origin story. It’s the thing that made them into the hero they are today. We want to hear that story. Where are you born a hero? Were you bit by a radioactive spider that made you want to get into the income-producing investments and those kinds of things? Or did you start a job? I want to sort of hear the story of losing everything twice. Basically, how did you get to where you are now?

 

Jennifer Grimson  7:40  

You know, it’s funny, so my show is called micro empires, and I talked about the fact that everything that you’re doing should be considered an empire. So you have to protect it and be proud of it. So was I born a superhero? No, I was not born a superhero. As a kid, I had really big dreams. And I made some mistakes that I think a lot of people especially women make, which is a kind of turned myself over my emotional self, my financial well being over to other people. That’s what I did. Those were my fatal flaws. I think when I became a superhero, which I don’t know what my name would be, that would be hilarious is when I woke up the second time and realized, I’ve done this again, because even though there were outside, things that had happened, my reasons for losing everything aren’t because I bought expensive clothes or had fancy cars. It’s because I turned my financial wellbeing over to other people. But it doesn’t really matter how I got there. And the common denominator was me, it was that wake-up call of the only person who’s going to turn this around is me. And the only way I’m going to figure it out is to walk through the mud and figure it out. And so that’s what I decided to do. So yes, I had a corporate job, I always went to get a corporate job. But I knew that real estate would be a key to building wealth. So that was step one. And then I ultimately went into Airbnb. And that’s kind of really what launched me here in Nashville. And then I started learning about other investment opportunities, other ways to invest. And it just became clear that there were all kinds of small ways to create empires that protect you. Because even if you have a really amazing job that you love and pays you so well, if you’re let go tomorrow, will you be okay in six months? I wanted to create an environment where nothing could ever be taken from me again, like that, I could lose a job. And that would be okay, I could end a relationship and I would be okay. I could lose a real estate deal, and I would be okay. So it was creating all of that. And I think my superpower, honestly, is the ability to recognize my own role in that situation because I can’t point the finger at other people. And then the willingness to just keep learning. I see a lot of folks who are a lot younger than me, say things like, well, I’m too old for that. Or it’s too late for me. And I think, Well, what does it say about me? I mean, even right now I’m developing yet another career stage in my life. So I guess that’s probably when I would be hesitant to use the word superpower, but I hear from my listeners that they identify with the fact of what I went through. And then I stopped keeping it a secret, I’ve kept it a secret for a long time because there’s a lot of shame around losing everything and financial chaos. 

 

Richard Matthews  10:39  

So my first thought is the idea of being able to lose a deal and be okay, or get fired from your job and be okay. And the thing that reminds me is, my listeners will recognize, I spent a lot of time reading Robert Kiyosaki’s books growing up. And one of the things that he says, he doesn’t count wealth as an amount of money, but any amount of time you can survive with your current lifestyle goals. Right? So it’s like, whatever your lifestyle is, however long you can sustain that, if it’s 100 days, you had 100 days worth of wealth. If it’s indefinitely, then you’re financially independent. And that’s what it sort of strikes me as it doesn’t really matter what happens in your world, you can continue to maintain your current lifestyle indefinitely. That’s financial independence, It doesn’t really matter how big the portfolio is. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  11:34  

Right. That’s true.

 

Richard Matthews  11:36  

Or whatever it is, you’re doing. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  11:39  

And Robert Kiyosaki wrote what I call it anyway, the purple Bible, the Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which is the beginning of anybody who wants to get into real estate, but honestly, anybody who wants to get in any kind of financial independence, because it’s a mind shift. That book is what begins your mind shifting for what you believe before. But I think that’s a really good point that you just made about Robert Kiyosaki, because, yes, how long can I maintain this lifestyle if everything went away, and that makes you examine your lifestyle, right? So it does for me anyway. So I mean, I’ve never lived well above my means. But I’m just more comfortable. And in doing the work to discover where you really feel about money, and where you feel comfortable, I think is really important. And then making sure that your partner understands it too. I mean, what you’re doing right now with your family is so unique, traveling all over. But there are many people who would find that so scary and so upsetting or so terrifying. And it’s not for you. But that’s a mindset, honestly. And that’s what I find with my guests. I’ll interview people who grew up poor, who are terrified all the time, and I interviewed people who grew up poor, who have no fear, because what do they have to fear? They’ve seen the worst. And I just think understanding what your lifestyle is so unique, but so rich, for you and your family. I just think that’s incredible. And I don’t think a lot of people spend a lot of time doing that because we’re kind of forced into the American dream which is not a real thing.

 

Richard Matthews  13:16  

Buy a house, buy a car, and do the same thing every week.

 

Jennifer Grimson  13:21  

And go into debt go into serious debt. 

 

Richard Matthews  13:23  

Yeah, and it’s an interesting thing, I remember, when I was growing my business, my first goal in my business was to hit a revenue number. It was like, I had this number in my head. And when I hit that number, it was a magical number. It was a really low number, it was, I’m gonna hit $100,000 a year, and I’ll have a real business. And I’ll finally be financially free and all these other things. And I remember, I hadn’t even quite hit that point yet. And it was a number of years ago. And I realized I was, I had all the money I wanted. I think we were like 60 or $70,000 a year, and I could do everything I wanted. And it was a lightbulb moment for me and I realized it wasn’t the money that I wanted. For me, it was time freedom and location freedom, and having enough money that I could do the things I wanted to do. And so the money wasn’t the limiting factor, and then it was a shift for me and realizing Okay, so what do I actually want to do with my business, and having a more value based business instead of just a goal to hit a revenue number, and then my business grew quite a bit. So it’s anyways, it’s definitely figuring out a little bit like, what is your lifestyle? What do you want? And I figured out what I wanted, and my wife and I started traveling, and it was after we started traveling, when we realized, you don’t need a lot to do what we want to do. And we have so much freedom. We have a lot of good times with our family and whatnot. But anyway,  it started with figuring out where we wanted our lifestyle to look like and how long we wanted to live that and now we know exactly what that takes and anything else we build on top of it. It just allows us to keep traveling and do cooler things.

 

Jennifer Grimson  14:56  

Right. I think it’s really important for everyone to ask themselves. What their definition of wealth is, because wealth is not the best word because it’s misunderstood by many people. For me, it’s time and options. So wealth provides me with as much time as I want to do the things I want to do, and provides me options. So if the car breaks down, or the house burns down, or whatever happens, I have options. When you live in financial worry or chaos, you may not have options, you might blow a tire and there are no options. And that’s what poverty is because you’re terrified all the time. And I know people who make six figures or more mid-six figures and live without time or options because they haven’t done that workaround. What am I really doing? Is any of this bringing me joy? And you got a Marie Kondo your life That’s right, on money way, but you’re absolutely right.

 

Richard Matthews  16:01  

Yeah, I had a friend of mine who’s got a very successful real estate business and in the wholesaling space, and was doing 200k a month in revenue. And in the wholesaling business, a lot of that is profit. So like big money he was pulling in. And I remember he called me up one day, and he was like, I’m so jealous of you. And I was like, why you make way more money than I do? And he was like because you have the freedom that I wish I did my businesses, I didn’t think about how my business was going to impact my lifestyle before I built it. And that’s an important consideration is to figure out what is the lifestyle or whatever investment vehicles you’re building. How do they affect your lifestyle? And do they allow you to have that freedom that you’re looking for?

 

Jennifer Grimson  16:49  

And you know, it’s interesting to me. I work with a lot of folks that are high-income earners, saved a lot of money, or are ready to invest. So they’re usually sort of a brand new investor, and they’re just getting their feet wet. Because I’m not a huge risk taker, I actually am a micro risk taker. So I don’t believe you need to put everything in one basket, whatever. But some folks are scraping together just enough to get started. Other folks have hundreds of 1000s of dollars in the bank, they’re making six figures, they own their home outright, etc. They’re ready to move. And they don’t need to move all of it. But they won’t because of the fear. And the question I always ask is, how much money do you really need? And like you said, I mean, especially if you aren’t carrying a house note, and car payments, 60 or $70,000 a year for the average person, it was a very, very nice lifestyle, after all your expenses, etc. But you stop believing that when you just see the big dollar signs in the bank, but it’s really a shift of like, really how much money do you actually need? And that’s a hard question and a hard thing for a lot of people to look at. But I think it’s very freeing. Once you realize it, like your friend had that realization, that he was making, what? $2.4 million a year. And he’s jealous of you because he has no freedom.

 

Richard Matthews  18:19  

And I was like, I remember I realized, we carry debt on this RV, and we have a car. And we’ve traveled pretty much full-time. So like we traveled three or four times a month and we moved all over the country we’ve done in four years, we’ve done 36 states and seen everything. We were just in Niagara Falls the other day in New York City to see killer whales in Oregon, we’ve done all sorts of cool stuff. And I think the whole lifestyle, everything we do costs us maybe $50,000 a year, including the debt.

 

Jennifer Grimson  18:52  

Well, and that’s the other thing I think it’s really important for people to understand is there’s good debt, and there’s bad debt. So good that serves you. And right now, with interest rates so low and everything money’s on sale, it’s not a bad time to be financing it, actually, we just went out the other day, and I never financed things anymore, really, I mean, big things, houses, obviously investments, big investments that we’re making in multifamily. But it was something small, it never crossed my mind. Like, oh, I don’t have to write a check for this. I can just finance it. And it happened to be furniture so it could be over years without interest, etc. But there’s good debt and there’s bad debt. And if the debt serves you, then it’s good. It propels you in the direction that you need to go. So leveraging those things, those are all honestly tools of the wealthy to buy your house and you have all this equity in it. Start using that, that should be a tool to build more wealth.

 

Richard Matthews  19:49  

Absolutely. One of the downsides of doing what we’re doing is because we don’t have anything but what we take with us. So we don’t have a house that’s building equity or any of those things. And so there’s an opportunity cost to go along with that. And I know, traveling has allowed us to do some of our take-ups of our dreams early, but it’s also making some of the wealth-building stuff a little more difficult. But it’s part of the decision process we’ve made and said, we were aware of that when we did it.

 

Jennifer Grimson  20:21  

Well, you don’t have to live in a home to have it be an investment. So you certainly could take advantage of that and keep doing your dream. And there are ways around that. But I see what you’re saying. The cost benefit analysis, but especially with the way that you’re traveling all over the country, you’re able to see every single pocket and every single opportunity that’s out there.

 

Richard Matthews  20:44  

Yeah, you mentioned Airbnb, I’m really excited about potentially getting into Airbnb as my next sort of thing. I have a friend of mine who’s got like seven or eight properties that does that. And I’m like, I want to get into that space, just because I know some of the areas of the country that they’d be really popular because we’ve been there. We know the areas and we know where that’d be a good market for them. The other one that I’ve been really interested in is the RV parks because after living in them for four years going all over the country, we know exactly what kind of stuff attracts us. Families like us, that would give us a competitive advantage in space. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  21:22  

Yeah, absolutely. Those are both great avenues to go down. 

 

Richard Matthews  21:26  

Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about your superpowers. I know you mentioned it a little bit before. But we say on this show, every iconic hero has a superpower, whether that’s a fancy flying suit made by genius intellect, or the ability to call down Thunder from the sky, or super strength. In the real world, heroes have what I call a zone of genius. And that’s either a skill or a set of skills that you were born with, or you developed over time. And this superpower is really what sets you apart and allows you to help your people slay their villains, so to speak, and come out on top in their own journeys. And if you think about all the skills you’ve built over the course of your life, there’s probably one skill that is connected to all of them. It’s the common thread that really helps you do what you do. So with that sort of framing, what do you think your superpower is?

 

Jennifer Grimson  22:13  

I think my superpower based on that is, I’m a lifelong learner. So one of the best compliments I ever got was from a very young CFO, he was like 27, 28 years old, running a multi-million dollar company. And we were doing a mastermind, we were the same mastermind, he was just a brilliant individual. And at the end of three or four days, he called me out and said, you are the only person I know, who has as much experience and lifetime under your belt, who is still asking questions of people my age. And I really took that to heart because it’s true, I know that I can learn from everyone, it doesn’t matter if you’re 22, and you’re a hairdresser, or whatever. And it’s the same reason why I’ve been able to pivot and shift so many times because I’m not afraid to learn. And I’m not afraid to be the dumbest person in the room.

 

Richard Matthews  23:11  

Not afraid to be bad at something,

 

Jennifer Grimson  23:12  

Right, and I think I’m a smart person. I have a good friend of mine, Philip, and he says,  the first time you do something, if you’re not embarrassed, you’re not doing it right. And it’s a good lesson. So I really do think that that has kept me humble, and it keeps you young, honestly, because I am constantly excited about maybe too much about different opportunities, things that people are doing, and seeing the positive on that side. And I think we get old. And I think we get stuck. When we stop learning. And when we start thinking we have nothing to gain from someone else, especially someone who looks entirely different from us. So I am proud of that. I do think that’s a superpower.

 

Richard Matthews  23:56  

Absolutely. And I love the idea of constantly learning one of my favorite mental exercises is when the fruit ripens, then it starts to rot. So you never want to get ripe, but you always want to be ripening. And that’s the way I’ve always thought about learning. I’ve always got something in my life that I’m working on learning. And over the last couple of years, it’s been things like, I had a piano sitting here next to me and I was like, I got my business going and I was I’m gonna want to pick up the piano and like six weeks later, I started reading music with piano my wife hated me for it. It took me years to get that good. And I picked up drawing last year and started learning to draw and then this year, my son and I are doing a 3d modeling. We’re learning to do 3d modeling. And I’ve convinced my wife and my son that if my son and I can come up with some cool 3d models. We’ll buy a 3d printer and we’ll actually make them and it’s a thing that I know that we need to do is just constantly have something that you’re learning. So a lot of the stuff in my business, we’ve got really solid, and I’ve got really good stuff going on there. But there’s not a lot of learning opportunities with what we’re doing because it’s very systematized at this point. So it’s just repeating the same thing. So I’ve always got something extra on the outside, I’m like, Okay, what are we learning here? And because they always have to work that muscle. And that’s where you get into doing things like learning a new investment strategy in my business, to new areas, but there should always be something that you’re learning. Anyways, I completely agree.

 

Jennifer Grimson  25:40  

Yeah, and I think that a lot of times, that sort of mindset, people look at as, Oh, you’re scattered, or you’re ADHD, and I’ve heard that before, and I kind of get down on myself. And then I realized, okay, so maybe I am, but it is the thing that takes me in all these directions, I never stopped learning. And I’ve worked with investment groups with very seasoned investors who’ve been doing, for example, multifamily for many, many years, and I’ll hear about something, I’ll research it and bring it to them a new opportunity, a new way to manage the money. And they’ve never heard of it before. So I just think that honoring that need it even just for being creative, you know, learning how to draw or take a YouTube class or whatever. But it’s that mindset of Oh, I’m done. I’m all done learning, we’ve got everything that I need to know is really debilitating. And I think it rapidly ages us.

 

Richard Matthews  26:43  

Yeah, I couldn’t imagine being done, the other thing, too, is the more you learn, the more you realize you don’t know anything. This is a weird paradox, but it’s absolutely true. And to the whole point of being ADHD, or scattered, at least for me, the that helps me with that is, I realized that the exercises I’m going through, are specifically for the joy of learning, not for becoming the best, I’m not looking to become a concert pianist, or a professional artist, or set up a 3d printing manufacturing facility, or any of those things are just fun exercises, on the side to just keep staying engaged and to have things that you’re doing with your kids and your family. In the business it’s the same way, you should have the things that you’re focused on that your business is delivering, and get really, really good at those. And get to the point where you’re world-class. And it’s one of those things that takes years to get world-class at something. Once you have that, that’s great. And you should always continue to iterate on those, but they’ll always be small iterations once you become world-class. And so your big opportunities to learn things are going to be in those spheres. And that’s where you get paradigm-shifting things that happen in your businesses when you bring stuff from other spheres that you’re learning and pull them into your main core if that makes sense. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  28:01  

Right? Exactly. Absolutely. Makes sense. 

 

Richard Matthews  28:04  

Yeah. So I want to talk about the flip side, then of your superpower, which is the fatal flaw. And just like every Superman has his kryptonite, or Wonder Woman can’t remove her bracelets of victory without going mad, you probably have a flaw that’s held you back in your business, something you’ve struggled with. For me, it was a couple of things early in my entrepreneur career was perfectionism, which kept me from actually shipping product, like, I always tweak it just a little bit more, instead of actually bringing it to market, or lack of self-care, which I struggled with for a long time, which was something that I let my clients walk over me because I didn’t have good boundaries, and I know how to set good boundaries with my clients. Or how to actually sleep at night, there were a whole bunch of problems, I had to self-care, learn how to take care of a lot of those things. But I think more important than the flaw is how have you worked to overcome it so that people who are listening might learn a little bit from your experience?

 

Jennifer Grimson  28:51  

So I talk a lot about it in my show. The opening question I always have is asked about your money culture, what you grew up in, and how it shaped you as it pertains to money because it affects us for the rest of our lives. And it’s a very interesting conversation. Not a single person that I’ve asked that question to has answered it in the past. But for me, my money culture, not necessarily how I grew up, but because of the things that I experienced by losing everything twice. I have a deep fear that lives deep inside of me. And what I’ve decided to do is rather than just overcoming it, or ignoring it, or trying to change it, is to accept it and fold it into my life. It’s there. I’ve now acknowledged it. I also acknowledge that it’s not necessarily a fact all the time. It’s just a feeling. But this is a really universal law and I think it could pertain to anything it could be money, relationships, jobs, anything, parenting, etc. But that fear bleeds into self-doubt. And everything else. And it’s more comforting to let it paralyze us because that’s where we go. And that’s what fear does to us. So for me, it’s been kind of like pulling that skeleton out of the closet, bringing it out, putting a party hat on it, putting on the couch, and like fear is invited to the party, you know, and I’m terrified. We’re going through a transaction right now. And as it pertains to money, I still have fear. My husband does not suffer from this money culture issue. He has a different money culture. But we talk about it on a daily basis, I’m feeling sick, I’m feeling insecure, I’m feeling this, whatever it is. But despite now, fear is kind of my co-pilot, like she’s there. There ain’t nothing I can do about it. She’s neurotic, and she’s coming along. But she’s not going to decide what are the moves that we’re going to make to move forward. But recognizing that fatal flaw is really important. Another one, it’s not mine, but I just want to touch on it is when folks tie their relationship with money to their identity. So if it’s important to me to have a fancy car in a nice house, or whatever, to my own detriment, doing some examination around that, because that is not taking care of yourself at all. It’s sabotaging yourself. So I don’t have any of that. But I live well below my means. And I always have. So it’s a little bit moving into this new world where I’m kind of like, Oh, wait, I don’t have to be so frugal all the time. I actually can go ahead and spend this kind of money. But yeah, short answer, fear.

 

Richard Matthews  31:47  

I love the description to have the money culture. And I know, it’s something that my wife and I have dealt with a lot because she grew up very poor. And I grew up upper-middle class, because my dad worked his ass off to do what he did. And he started off poor. And by the time, I remember most of life, we were doing pretty well. And by the time I graduate high school, he’s doing very well. He’s retired well, and all that kind of stuff. And I had the other interesting tidbit of my dad put the rich dad books in my hand when I was nine years old. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  32:16  

Wow. 

 

Richard Matthews  32:17  

So I had a pretty good middle-class employee mindset about money. And then I started learning from Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump and some other people that we’re reading their books, like The Art of The Deal when I was 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. So I had a very interesting relationship with money. And my money culture has sort of becoming a tool. And I’ve never really been afraid of it. And I think if there was a flawed side of that. It’s that, I always want to have whatever the best thing is. Where if there’s a choice between two hammers, and one of them’s $2, and one of them’s $5. I’ll buy the $5 one, 

 

Jennifer Grimson  32:34  

Right, and your wife growing up poor probably has the totally opposite. 

 

Richard Matthews  33:10  

She would rather buy the $2, hammer five times and buy the $5 hammer one. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  33:15  

Exactly.

 

Richard Matthews  33:17  

And so we struggle with that a little bit. But one of the things that I’ve found interesting is what I’ve been working personally with my relationship with money is, I figured this is my ladder for success is how much money do I not have before I don’t have to consider its indecision. And so what I mean by that is, if I go to Walmart, and I buy an object by a widget, and I take it home, and it doesn’t work, how much money before I don’t care, that it didn’t work, and I’ll just move on with my life versus going through the process of adding having to refund it, like, go back and get it returned. And we’re done. And I remember when we first started up our marriage, we were very poor. And it was like, if it was $1, we’d go back and return it. And you get to the point where it’s $10 $50 $100 $500 and if it’s a $500 investment if it works great. If it doesn’t work, it’s not a big deal, and you just move on. And because you realize, the experience and other things are worthwhile. And that’s sort of been my measure of like, okay, I want to get that number to the point where I can buy a sailboat. I don’t like it. I just buy a different sailboat. It’s not there yet, but essentially that’s how I always thought about that. 

 

Richard Matthews  34:37  

Oh, that’s funny. That’s a good way to measure it. Definitely. 

 

Richard Matthews  34:40  

Yeah. And the reason I say the sailboat is we were at a boat show a number of years ago in San Diego, which is very near all of the very wealthy movie stars and whatnot. And I was talking to one of the yacht brokers, and I was like, so what is it like selling yachts in this price range, he was like, either we sell to normal people. Like you, we sell to crazy people who come in and they’re like they buy yachts the way that you buy socks at Walmart. Like, do you want the black ones? And the white ones are like, I’ll take both times for a week and whatever. I don’t like the other one, I’ll just give it to a friend. And like, that’s.

 

Jennifer Grimson  35:14  

That’s the reality. Isn’t that crazy? It’s insane. There’s only a very, very small percentage of the world like that. But when you float in those circles, it’s kind of crazy.

 

Richard Matthews  35:26  

Yeah. So but apparently, being a yacht broker, you meet those people. So which I could imagine is kind of fun. So, I want to talk then about your common enemy. And your common enemy is interesting. It’ll be interesting for this conversation because generally, you put it in the context of your clients, but every superhero has an arch-nemesis. And it’s the thing that they constantly have to fight against in their world. In the world of business takes a lot of forms. But generally speaking, we put it in the context of your clients. And for this, why don’t we put it into the context of your listeners and the people that you work with on your podcast and your show and teaching them about investing. And it’s a mindset, or it’s a flaw that you constantly have to fight to overcome so that the people who are listening to you and learning from you can actually get the results that they came to you for. What is that arch-nemesis that you’re constantly having to fight against?

 

Jennifer Grimson  36:15  

It’s self-doubt. So it’s everything from I’m not smart enough to do this, I’m not brave enough to do this, I am afraid to leave my marriage because I’ll be lost, I’m afraid to get married because I will lose something, I’m afraid to buy my first home, I’m afraid to make my first investment. And it all comes down to who they are, and their own valuation, and self-doubt. And so how I help people with that, because I suffer from that too, of course, is just tools that I’ve used over the years. And they are tools, I always call it moving the needle, there’s a reason it’s called micro empires, it’s micro risks. And everything is done in small chunks. Because that’s how I could manage my relationship with money, my fear, and my learning curve. And my own self doubt was to go into it slowly, slowly, slowly. So the way I help people is, there’s something that I do I go live as if, so when you’re going into an environment, and you want to become a real estate investor, well, if you own a home, then you already are a real estate investor, it’s okay to live as if you already have millions of listeners and 1000s of followers and multimillion-dollar business. It doesn’t mean fake it. But it does mean tell the true story, I’m building this business, this is who I am, I am an investor, and believing and who that is, and believing that you are smart enough and curious enough to get the information that you need to squash that self-doubt. But a lot of it just comes from deep, deep, deep within the simplest of things, and it is the thing over and over and over again, that I talk to people about every day.

 

Richard Matthews  38:12  

And that’s such an interesting thing too, I love the concept of having this small thing that you can take control of and move forward and just the small risks that you can take to manage them. Because we all have our self-doubts, and we all have problems with trying to come up with things. And I wanted to get into the real estate business for years, but I’ve always been like I want to build my business to a point where it’s throwing off cash flow that I can invest in real estate. It’s just like a side thing. So I made that decision consciously. But there’s always that part of me that is like, am I making a decision constantly? Or am I afraid of it? And I always have to examine that. And make sure that I’m still doing what I want to be doing. And, but it’s an interesting thing, and I like the thoughts of learning how to live as if and we hear all the time. People always tell you to fake it till you make it. I’ve always hated that saying, but the underlying concept is really powerful. Because you are not what you think you are how you act. Your actions define who you are. And I always tell people, if someone could read my mind, I’d probably be in prison. That’s probably true for everyone. But you’re not judged by how you think you’re judged by how you act by what you do. And so learning to act as if your lifestyle follows your actions. It’s not the other way around. So to act as if it is, you know, that’s where that whole thing of buying the $5 hammer came from. In my life, I was like, a wealthy person would buy the $5 hammer because that’s the one that they would buy. And so even when I was broke and young and an early entrepreneur, I was like, I’m gonna act as if I’m a wealthy person and buy the $5 hammer. And for the project, I’m working on even though it takes me three weeks to save up for the $5 hammer. That’s the way that even if that’s flawed, I don’t know if that’s true or not, but in my head, that’s why I thought wealthy people would do so I was acting the way a wealthy person would act, which was by the $5 hammer. And so anyway, yeah, I really like that. One of the ways that I’ve run my life is learning to act as if I am where I want to be.

 

Jennifer Grimson  40:38  

One of the greatest exercises that I’ve done, and it really works, although I’m sort of a very, very, very pragmatic practical person. It’s so when I hear something like a vision board, I’m like, Oh, God, my eyes roll, and I’m like, please give me a break. However, I have several times I do it on a whiteboard, and I map out the mission, whatever it is, at one point, I had one that I still have that says homework and love. And so it was about creating a home, creating work, and finding love. And I wrote it all out on a whiteboard, put it up on my wall, and that was as if, and I saw it every day. And then you stop seeing it every day because it’s there every day. And literally within a year. I mean, in any year, certainly, some of it came true. But as I look back now, on that board, everything that I wrote down was achieved. And that is about living as if it can be a small thing, like writing yourself a sticky note saying I am wealthy, I deserve this. I do that,  whatever it is. When I first started doing real estate investing, I had bought my home and I found out about a real estate investor network group. And I went to it and the first night I went, it was like 500 people and it was so intimidating. And they were all speaking a language I didn’t speak. But it was also exciting. I felt like I had landed a cult swimming in the pool. I was in the right pool, and I was swimming, but I was swimming with all Olympic athletes. And I’m like in my floaties just trying to keep up but I’m in the right pool. I mean, that’s better than most people you’re across the field. You don’t you can’t even see the pool. So I knew I was in the right pool. So I went home, they had a meeting once a month, went home, I had business cards made up black business card had my name on the front on the back, it said, investor, entrepreneur, here’s my phone number. That’s it, no email, nothing, nothing, nothing. So I had something to hand out. And I’m like, yeah, I’m an investor. I own a house. I’m investing right now. And it was just learning by fire. If anybody asked me, what do you own? What do you invest in course, I tell the truth. But that’s how I had to learn. I mean, I went out with wholesalers and banged on doors, I did all the things till I figured out what my personality type and my who I am as an individual would do well in. And it is not door-knocking. And it is not flips. And it is not rehabs. It’s none of those things. But living like that was really important. And then as I started to build my portfolio of Airbnb, which I did, just by moving into them, which is something you might consider. So I buy a house and move into it for 3%, live in it for six months, set it up as an Airbnb, and leave and do it again and do it again and do it again. So it’s house hacking. But once I started to, a year into being in this group.

 

Richard Matthews  43:31  

I feel like that might be genius. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  43:33  

Thank you once, anyway, we could talk about that. Once I started doing that, because we would stand up in this group and introduce ourselves, I’d stand up and I’m like, I’m Jennifer, I have four single-family homes, three of which are Airbnb. I’m investing in this. And people are like, Oh my god, you’re a guru and I’m like, No, I’m not. I’m somebody who’s moved six times in 18 months. It’s not fun. I have a job. On top of it all, it was hard. It was I got comfortable being uncomfortable. You know that is a perfect example of how you all could begin this journey. I would say now that you asked me, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Since you are thinking about real estate, there’s no reason you have to stop what you’re doing and refocus on something else. You can put your toe in the water, you can take a micro risk, you can make a small investment and see how it goes. Yeah, it makes you feel, see what tax benefits it brings you. There are lots of different ways.

 

Richard Matthews  44:36  

It’s genius, we have to talk more about that after the interview. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  44:39  

Thank you. I thought it was genius too.

 

Richard Matthews  44:42  

Yeah. And I really liked the concept of dipping your toe into things. I mean, I tell people I’ve been running my business for 12 or 13 years now. But honestly, it’s changed and shifted a lot because what I would do is like I had really strict rules for me and my best friend. We started in 2007 together. So however long it’s been, we dropped out of college on the same day, because we’re like, we’re going to build a business.

 

Jennifer Grimson  45:09  

Oh wow in podcasting?

 

Richard Matthews  45:11  

No, it’s shifted a lot. It’s been in business and marketing the whole time. And it’s just gotten very narrow into podcasting over the years. But he’s in a different space, he’s in the real estate marketing space. So we sort of grew our businesses parallel. But we both had very similar rules that we set up for ourselves. And it was time freedom and location freedom and some other things that we wanted to have, like our business, let us do those things. And so we’d go down a path a little bit. And like your example of door knocking, you realize that one’s violating some of our rules, and a pullback and we go a different direction a little bit, and we go down and sometimes the money was good in some areas, and we’d stopped anyways because we had the lifestyle goals that we wanted to build. And when I was looking to build a business to change the world, like Apple computer or something, I was looking to build a lifestyle business. And so I knew what those rules were, took more than 10 years to get there. But just by acting as if, essentially, and going down those paths and testing things out really allowed us to get where we wanted to go with our businesses.

 

Jennifer Grimson  46:15  

Right, right. And I would, I mean, the other part of it was, I was so motivated to learn the lesson, whatever the lesson was, that I had to learn, I had to learn it. And I was willing to clear everything off my plate to learn it. So during those years of building that business, I wasn’t in a relationship, you know what I mean? Like I had a full-time job. And I had this other side business that I didn’t even know I was building, but I was building and I just knew it was gonna work. And it was before Airbnb, people were, what is that? What do you mean, people are staying at your house, that’s crazy. I was like crazy, but six nights a month pays my mortgage. So okay, it works for me. And I was buying in rough neighborhoods, I was doing all the things that people were like, what’s a nice girl like you do and stuff like that. And I was a nice girl like me doesn’t want to end up with no job, no car, no money, no place to live, and two kids ever again. But where you are, you’re just so grounded in your family and your comfort level and what you’re doing. And this just actually is another opportunity perhaps to build wealth and have some fun and get an industry that you like, there’s a good and bad side of Airbnb, I could go on and on and on forever, I actually sold all the properties 30 days before COVID hit. So I got out of Airbnb entirely of that business, I might go back into it in another market, but probably not Nashville.

 

Richard Matthews  47:47  

But what’s interesting to me is I got another friend of mine who does Airbnb, and he had all the properties at the beginning of COVID. And it was a nightmare for several months. And now he’s so booked, he can’t even like to see straight.

 

Jennifer Grimson  48:02  

That’s true. And if I’d hung on to them, it would be fine now, but those eight, nine months, 10 months in between, I would have been miserable. And my carrying costs were $7,000 a month, and I would have been making my husband crazy. And it was just better. It’s just what I needed to do. And I wanted to do more in multifamily, more investing passive investing because that’s by trial and error. And going over and over, what I’ve realized is that being a passive investor is what I really like to do.

 

Richard Matthews  48:37  

So I would like to get to the point where I got the cash flow for that because I’ve looked at some of the numbers and the passive investing where you’re working with someone who’s putting deals together. And you put up the 500,000 or whatever that they need to reposition the property. And you get a 10% equity stake in the property and you get a 10% cash flow for the whole period until they get to the reposition where they do the cash-out refinance, you get another 10% windfall of cash. And when they sell the property, you get the 10% again, it’s like, you can turn that $500,000 investment into a million and a half bucks over the course of four or five years, and you’ve got your cash on cash return back in 18 months, so you can put it back into another project that they’re doing. And it’s insane. And your work on that is nothing, it’s just putting up the money.

 

Jennifer Grimson  49:21  

It’s money. And that’s important to say because that’s exactly what I do right now. And I also work with other investors to kind of just show them the opportunities that I’m going into, but you don’t need $500,000 you typically need 100 some will do 50 It depends on what kind of investor you are. And that’s kind of my point you the comfort level really is. Whatever the dollar amount is, whether it’s 50 or 100, whatever it is, you got to be comfortable saying goodbye to it for a few years. Even if you’re getting your returns your cash flow during the years like it’s not going to be a ton of money coming in, it’s the equity play. But the one thing you didn’t talk about is the huge tax benefit that also comes, which is a no, no.

 

Richard Matthews  50:10  

I’ve never done it, conceptually, I understand how it works, but I’ve never done it. So I don’t really know what the tax shelter stuff is on the other side. It’ll be interesting if you are curious to talk about it a little bit.

 

Jennifer Grimson  50:20  

Yeah, well as an investor, so I’m an investor, and I’m not on the GP end. But there’s cost segregation and bonus depreciation, etc. These are all tax laws that are available. So let me back up a bit. We have owned an apartment complex ourselves straight out, and have a management company in there, we did something called cost segregation, and bonus depreciation, which basically gave us a huge tax cut, which we applied, and were able to apply very, very quickly, versus the law, used to be, it took 27 years, we are getting out of that hands-on business. And now we are taking that money and redeploying it as investors in different multifamily opportunities. So last year, I made an investment in 67 doors in Knoxville, Tennessee. Last week, I made another investment in 128 doors in Chattanooga. And it’s exactly as you describe it, so that $100,000 which by the way, it’s not like I can write a check for $100,000, I can use a tool called a self directed IRA, you can use your old 401k there are a lot of ways to do that.

 

Richard Matthews  51:38  

One of my favorites is I got a friend of mine who does this, you take that money, and it’s in a whole life insurance policy that’s earning like six or 8% annually. And it’s coming out as a loan. So the cash flow pays the interest back in, and the equity position. So you’re actually stalking your interest.

 

Jennifer Grimson  51:53  

That’s exactly right. 

 

Richard Matthews  51:54  

That’s how wealthy people play 

 

Jennifer Grimson  51:56  

Exactly. That’s what this show is about. So I have an episode on whole life insurance. And that’s exactly one another. One is called a first position HELOC when you own a home and you do the same thing. So the idea, and I understand this for anybody, I’m talking about Oh, it’s only 100,000. Like, that’s not I’m not a complete jerk. I know, that’s a huge number. But when I learned, so I learned while I was still working a job and had just gotten into Airbnb, through my Real Estate Group that I could take my 401k and put it in a vehicle where I could invest in real estate, I quit my job to get the 401k out. Now granted, I like the job anyway, I got another job. But I got that money out. So I could start using it to invest in real estate. And that’s what I’ve done. And I’ve grown it there. And then there are other vehicles, but my point is, it’s very intimidating to say, and it depends on the operators, that’s really the trouble. The trouble is to find people that you know, like, and trust, and who you can work with, that is the most important thing, more than anything more than the deal more than anything who you know, like, and trust. Trust actually comes first. But this is exactly a walk through the Chattanooga deal, it’s an $8 million property, we did a $2.6 million, raise the minimum was about $100,000. But if you do $100,000, you’re getting a basically, 6% return. And then but an expected, 1.6 when it sells out, so you will triple your money, by the time you’re done. Now, by the time you’re done won’t be I mean, with real estate, you need to plan at least three to five years. But also, during that time, you’re getting all the tax benefits. And that comes with, you just have to have yourself a really experienced CPA who understands real estate.

 

Richard Matthews  53:56  

Yeah, it’s fascinating too, it’s an entirely different game that you play once you get to that level. And that’s where I was like, I know, in my business, that’s sort of my next goal is to take the cash flow of the business generates and start putting it into those things. Because of everything I do in my business, even as systematizes I’ve made it, it’s still an active business. It’s like if I went away, in a few years of business would die. So I’d like to get it to a point where it would continue to grow without me, but we’re not there yet. But anyway, I know that’s sort of taking the business like Robert Kiyosaki says to take it to the B quadrant, use a cash flow to get into the AI quadrant.

 

Jennifer Grimson  54:34  

I know you interviewed a few of my friends, one is Billy Keels. I know you interviewed him recently, 

 

Richard Matthews  54:41  

Probably. Yeah. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  54:42  

And he lives in Barcelona. He has a z corporate job and he does investments as well. I mean, the types of investments that he raises money for are not necessarily real estate. But there are lots of things out there that once you have, like let’s say you have an old 401k with 200 that’s And then you convert it to something that you can use to invest. It’s just sitting there, and you’re just looking for ideas of where to put this money. And it’s just gonna sit there anyway. And it’s not accruing much interest. So there are lots of opportunities. But it’s really about understanding and opening the doors, being willing to learn, and knowing that you belong there. That’s the other thing that’s very intimidating. folks think, Oh, it’s only if you’re super wealthy or whatever. And it’s not true. You belong there. You act as if because you do belong there. Everybody does.

 

Richard Matthews  55:36  

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that was a good discussion. Normally, I have a section of the show called The heroes toolbelt, where we talk about some practical things, but I think that pretty much covers some practical things you can do with your finances.

 

Richard Matthews  55:49  

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Richard Matthews  57:20  

I want to talk a little about your own personal heroes. Everyone has their mentors, just like Frodo had Gandalf or Luke had Obi-Wan Kenobi, or like we mentioned Robert Kiyosaki had his rich dad, Spider Man who had Uncle Ben. Who were some of your heroes, were they real-life mentors, speakers, or authors, maybe peers who were a couple of years ahead of you, and how important were they to what you’ve accomplished so far?

 

Jennifer Grimson  57:41  

You know, I think my real-life mentors are the folks that I saw, just continuing to choose to be happy, no matter how hard their lives were. And that was a real testimony to me. So a lot of that stems around poverty when you’re either poor, or you’re living in financial chaos is another way that I put it, but you meet folks that are just still choosing happiness, still choosing to live life and to enjoy life. So that was really important to me. As far as famous people. I mean, as certainly this is so cliche, but I’m definitely going to have to quote, Oprah, Oprah saved my life when I was going through my first divorce and absolutely terrified and didn’t know where to go or what to do. And like many people at three o’clock every afternoon, this is before the internet before everything, I would watch her on TV and Maya Angelou came on and said lessons will continue to be taught until they are learned. And I remember I was eating a chicken sandwich. I stopped in the middle of the chew and went, Oh my god, I’m going to marry the same person. I’m going to make the same mistakes. And I’m going to end up in the same place if I don’t learn this lesson. And that was my first step of this is a lesson that I have to learn it’s not going to get better if I don’t learn it. And then I think along the way, all the people that I follow Jen Sincero and Gavin de Becker and Chris Voss, it’s sort of a plethora of people. Robert Kiyosaki, definitely a mindset shift. But it wasn’t just about money. It was really about discovering who I am, and knowing what my needs were on every level, and then being able to communicate that without flinching. And without feeling bad about taking my space and taking my place. So I can’t point to one person. But yeah, that’s what they would look like.

 

Richard Matthews  59:39  

What’s interesting to me is I also remember where I was at the first time I heard someone say lesson repeated until lesson learned. And I was sitting in a network marketing, a meeting, and the guy’s name was Larry and he’s standing up and he’s talking and I was a college kid at the time. and wanting to get into this whole world of business and thought network marketing be a great way to start. And I remember he was sitting there to the whole audience, and he said, lesson repeated until lesson learned. And I don’t remember anything about that. Like almost nothing from the entire experience for years that I can really, really concretely say impacted my life. But hearing him say that one thing, like shifted everything for me, because you realize it’s like, Hey, you have to learn the lesson before you move on. And the hardest part sometimes is you don’t know what the lesson is because you don’t know what you don’t know. And sometimes you just have to hit your head on the wall a few times until you realize what’s going on. But that willingness to make the mistakes and to analyze them and to learn the lessons and move forward is like, that’s how you grow. It creates a snowball effect in your life. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:00:49  

Yep. Exactly. 

 

Richard Matthews  1:00:52  

Awesome. So I want to talk about one more thing, which is your guiding principles. And so one of the things that make heroes heroic is that they live by a code. For instance, Bat Man never kills his enemies, he only ever brings them to Arkham Asylum. So as we wrap up the interview, I want to talk about maybe one or two principles that you live your life by, maybe something you wish you had known when you started out on your own Hero’s Journey all those years ago.

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:01:13  

These are just so easy questions. They’re like, huge, someone asked me the other day on a show I was on what the meaning of life was. And I had been asked that before, and I hadn’t really thought about it. But I think this is the same. For me, I think I’ve been living this truth, but I hadn’t put it into words until a few days ago. But I think the meaning of life, and my guiding principle is impact. I want to have a positive impact. And I think it’s the most important thing that any one of us can do. And some people are like Oprah, and they have a huge platform, they can impact lots and lots of people. And then there are other people who I mean, I have many stories, and I’m sure that you do and every listener you have has the story like this, of somebody, a complete stranger, who said something to you one day that completely impacted you for the rest of your life. So I think my goal is to try to have a positive impact on everybody, every person that I touch in some way, because what is the purpose of anything, if I’m not doing that, and I really only surround myself, that’s another key part. And it’s a guiding principle, I don’t waste my time, I don’t fill the space with people who aren’t swimming in the same pool, just got to keep up. That doesn’t mean that you abandon your friends who have a different mindset or whatever. But I only surround myself with really quality people, and really people who are learning and striving for better. So I think those are my guiding principles.

 

Richard Matthews  1:03:02  

Yeah, I have a similar one that I follow called, leave it better than you found it. Similar to impact, where everything from people you meet, if you leave a smile on their face, you’ve left them better than you found them. When they go to the campsite, we make sure they are cleaner than when we got there, and national parks and everything. My kids are crazy kids on the beach who are like cleaning up after other people. But it’s an impact thing, we want the impact on our world to be a positive one. And so everything we do is all sort of geared towards living a better world behind.

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:03:39  

Absolutely. And it’s just as easy to be nice. It’s easier to be nice than it is to be mean or any other negative emotion. Like it’s much easier to do that.

 

Richard Matthews  1:03:51  

Absolutely. Well, that is basically a wrap on our interview. Jennifer, I really appreciate you coming on. But I do have one final thing that I do at the end of all of my shows. It’s a simple challenge that I call the hero’s challenge. And it’s a selfish thing. I do it to get access to stories I might not otherwise find on my own. So the question is simple. Do you have someone in your network that you think has a cool entrepreneurial story? Who are they? First names are fine, and why do you think they should come to share their story on our show? First-person that comes to mind for you.

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:04:20  

The first person that comes to mind for me is Mignon Francois who is the founder of the cupcake collection here in Nashville, Tennessee. She was one of my very first guests. She is phenomenal. She started with $5 and in her home with no electricity and built a multimillion-dollar cupcake business. And she is a walking talking testimony to love and light and joy. And before I got to meet her I used to go down to her little house or a little cupcake house where she was making them and I’d buy a cupcake cuz it’s all I could afford, and just the joy that I felt in that environment impacted me. So she was one of my first guests. And she’s a hero to me for sure.

 

Richard Matthews  1:05:11  

Absolutely. Well, reach out later and see if we can get an introduction. Maybe get her on the show. They don’t always say yes, but we always try to get cool people on. 

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:05:15  

Yeah, understood. 

 

Richard Matthews  1:05:19  

So, in comic books, there’s always the crowd of people at the end who cheer and clap for the acts of heroism are analogous to that, as we close is where can people find you if they want to learn from you? Where can they light up the bat signal, so to speak, and say, Hey, Jennifer, I’d love to learn a little bit more about micro empires, and getting that kind of stuff going on in my life. And I think more importantly than where is who are the right types of people to reach out and maybe listen or to learn from you.

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:05:42  

Yeah, I love for people to listen to the podcast. So you can get anywhere you can find podcasts, and it’s micro empires. My website is micro dash empires.com on there, if you want to schedule a time to talk to me, I have a calendly that you can fill out and I’ll spend time with you, I have a guest intake form and also an investor intake form, just for people, really just anybody who’s interested because you got to start somewhere. the right person to reach out to me is really anybody who’s trying to figure out the next real move in their life, whether that’s financial work, or otherwise, but I tend to work with folks who are kind of have everything in the right spot, they just don’t know how to take the next step, or a lot of people identify with being at the place where I lost everything, and how to begin again. And I have episodes that go through every single detail. It’s one of the things on my show, I share all of my numbers. I don’t I don’t make it vague. I make it very specific. I ask all of my guests to be very specific. So there’s no fuzz, there’s no blur on the screen so you can understand exactly what it is that you’re getting.

 

Richard Matthews  1:07:01  

Absolutely. So that is basically a wrap. Thank you so much for coming to the show. Jennifer, if you are in that spot where you want to look and learn a lot about building micro empires, definitely check out the show. I’m going to be checking out the show. I know you you had it. I was just reading through your bio. I was like, Oh, this is like my kind of information. So I’m looking forward to hearing that. But Jennifer, again, thank you so much for coming on the show. Do you have any final words of wisdom for my audience before I hit this stop record button?

 

Jennifer Grimson  1:07:30  

Thank you very much for having me and don’t abandon yourself because you are a superhero in your own life.

 

Richard Matthews  1:07:36  

Absolutely. Thank you very much, Jennifer.