Episode 159 – Dr. Petra Deeter

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Dr. Petra Deeter  0:00  

The fact that I am passionate about this, I experience this very deeply, it’s a very visceral experience because I experienced it, it impacted my life, it defined every aspect of who I am, these children that have been alienated, grew up with a lot of problems, trust issues, because you’ve been lied to by one of your parents, and then you lost a relationship with your parents, in the normal family dynamics system, looking at the attachment theories, children that have a secure attachment to both parents will grow up a lot more healthy, physically and psychologically than a child that’s lost a relationship, right, the children that grow up with all those problems, end up with stuck in a cycle of abuse, and that’s what I end up. That’s why I made a film about domestic violence because that’s how I end up with relationship after relationship of an abusive relationship with toxic people because we never learned what a healthy relationship looks like, a lot of these children suffer from this. And then also the parents, and it’s a transgenerational thing. Because when they don’t learn it, they pass it on to their children, and then their children become the victim or the abuser of the same problem. And then we just carry this on from generation to generation. And so I experience this very visually. So I really recognize that you can get a skill set and qualification, you can either pick up the skill today, especially today with YouTube, with anything, you can almost pick up any skill set. So that’s not the problem. And you can bring in the right people if you need, and that’s what I’m doing. I’m standing on the shoulders of the Giants, I’m bringing the experts and asking them what is going to be the solution for this, how do we solve this? I’m not doing this on my own. What really is helping me doing this is my passion. I wake up every day thinking about this. I go to sleep dreaming about it’s literally day and night ever since and recognized this problem. I never stopped. When my friend asked that question, my answer was, if not me, then who?

 

Richard Matthews  2:37  

Heroes are an inspiring group of people, every one of them from the larger than life comic book heroes you see on the big silver screen, the everyday heroes that let us live the privileged lives we do. Every hero has a story to tell, the doctor saving lives at your local hospital, the war veteran down the street, who risked his life for our freedom to the police officers, and the firefighters who risked their safety to ensure ours every hero is special and every story worth telling. But there was one class of heroes that I think is often ignored the entrepreneur, the creator, the producer, the ones who look at the problems in this world and think to themselves, you know what I can fix that I can help people I can make a difference. And they go out and do exactly that by creating a new product or introducing a new service. Some go on to change the world, others make a world of difference to their customers. Welcome to the Hero Show. Join us as we pull back the masks on the world’s finest hero preneurs and learn the secrets to their powers, their success and their influence. So you can use those secrets to attract more sales, make more money, and experience more freedom in your business. I’m your host, Richard Matthews, and we are on in 3…2…1… 

 

Richard Matthews  3:33  

Hello, and welcome back to The Hero Show. My name is Richard Matthews. And today I have the pleasure of having Petra Deeter on the line. Petra, are you there?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  3:39  

Yes, I am.

 

Richard Matthews  3:41  

Awesome. So glad to have you here. Before we got on, you said you’re coming in from Los Angeles. Is that right?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  3:46  

Right. Yeah. Such a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

 

Richard Matthews  3:50  

Yeah, thanks for coming on. I read through your bio before we got on the show. Seems like you do some really interesting stuff. Looking forward to talking about all of that, for my audience that follows our journey. We are currently in the Poconos in Pennsylvania and headed up on our way to New York next week. But what I want to do Petra real quick is going through your bio so my audience who doesn’t know who you are, gets an idea, and then we’ll get in and talk about what makes you a hero today. So let me start off here Dr. Petra Deeter is an award-winning film director and social impact builder. As a filmmaker, she has made films in many genres focusing on using the visual story medium to tell the stories that matter. Her film Reborn about domestic violence premiered at the legendary Chinese Theatre in Hollywood, and won over two dozen international awards, and screened at festivals and theaters around the world. And her upcoming film is a feature length documentary called At All Costs that examines a five-year custody battle and the system failure that led to the murder of a 10 year old boy by his father. As a survivor of child abuse and domestic violence. She is passionate about creating social impact to advocate for victims. She’s the founder and parental alienation strategist to victim to hero Institute. Where she provides resources and support for victims raises public awareness and champions system and social changes, which is super cool. So what I want to talk about first, Petra is what is it that you’re known for? What’s your business? Like? Who do you serve? What do you do for them?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  5:17  

Thank you for being here, Richard. What I do is advocate for victims of parental alienation. I don’t know if the term is well known to your audience. But in general, when we mentioned that term, people usually look at us with a blank look, even though it’s something that’s effect over 22 million parents in the US alone, and obviously, as many children because every parent has at least one child, but parental alienation is what happens when a parent or someone who bad mouth or brainwash or influenced the child to reject the other parent and this usually happens in divorce or separation. You see that probably

 

Richard Matthews  6:03  

I’ve experienced it with in my own life.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  6:07  

Oh, wow.

 

Richard Matthews  6:10  

Stepbrother and the ex-wife of the stepdad went through the whole process of trying to make the step that out to be an evil person, which he wasn’t, but succeeded with making the child, not like his dad.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  6:27  

Yeah, so you know what it’s like?

 

Richard Matthews  6:31  

Yeah. As a brother, I was growing up with him. And I remember, he’d come over to stay with us. And he’d get on the phone with his mom, and she would bad mouth. The dad and make the child feel like he was a problem and everything for enjoying his time with his dad. It was rough. As you know, I was only a couple of years older than him as an older brother. And it was definitely impacted our lives.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  6:57  

Wow, how was it now?

 

Richard Matthews  7:01  

He is in his mid-20s. I think.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  7:05  

Yeah. He reconnected with his dad, is he in a good relationship with him?

 

Richard Matthews  7:09  

He has. I would say it’s okay. It’s not as good as it could be. But it was a rough start.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  7:19  

Yeah, and this is the thing when you talk about this and explain what it is, virtually everyone can say, yeah, I’ve seen this, like, oh couple got a divorce. And then the mother will say, oh, your dad is a deadbeat father, and he is a drunkard, or he’s a violent guy or something. And then the father will say to their child, your mother is mentally ill, or she cheated on me. And she left us, things like that, it brings adult problems into the children’s world and forces children in the middle of the adult conflict, and forcing them to choose. And I mean, as an adult, we know that when we have a couple of friends, and if they break up, let’s say we hang out with the wife, we will stop talking to the husband, because otherwise, she’s going to be offended, or vice versa. And yet parents expecting this of their children. And even though you don’t love your ex anymore, the child still has the right to love that parent. And so what I do is I advocate for these parents, we do a lot of different things. At the personal level, we provide education and resources, we provide support. And then at the industry level, we do research. And we provide education and resources. And then at the society level, we provide public awareness campaigns, and at the system level we’re working on legislative reform, and also education and resources. So we essentially trying to solve this problem at all levels.

 

Richard Matthews  8:55  

All levels of the culture, that’s really cool. So what I want to talk about then is how you got into doing this as a business and actually trying to make that kind of social impact. We talk on this show all the time. Every good hero has an origin story is the thing that made them into the hero they are today. We want to hear that story were you born a hero? Were you bit by a radioactive spider that made you want to get into this kind of public awareness for what did you call disconnected parents?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  9:25  

It’s called parental alienation.

 

Richard Matthews  9:29  

Parental alienation. There we go. I’ll see if I can remember that’s a difficult one. Where you know, did you start on the job and eventually end up in this career? So what is your origin story like?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  9:39  

Well, I actually was the alienated child. I was that child. But a lot of these children don’t actually realize that they are victims of abuse. This is a form of abuse, no question about it. It’s a form of child abuse. And it’s a form of domestic violence because somebody is using the child as a weapon to hurt and control their ex, sometimes step parents play a part in this. So it may not be their ex, but it’s somebody. So anyway, I was that child. And I had no idea. I rejected my father and I never questioned at all what was going on. And then when I became an adult, I always held on to that belief that my father was a monster. And I never stopped to go, well, what did he do that was so bad? I just believed it, because I grew up with that narrative. And I just stick to that narrative. And then, very much later in life, a little bit more than a year ago, when someone in my family stopped and said, hey, I can’t carry this on any longer, I have to tell you something about what your mother did to your father to destroy that relationship. I mean, we never had that conversation. I’m still in very close touch with that person, but we never sit down and have that conversation. But even just that statement alone, made me go, oh, what happened? And then I start to search, and I start to look into it. And then I start to question things. And then very quickly, I realized what happened. And this is something that’s very common to a lot of adult children that went through something as I did. It’s such a devastating reality especially for me when I realized that my father had passed a number of years ago. And the only thing that really helped me was he left behind a website that was made for me, I searched for his name and I found it. So anyway, that really helped, because then there was writing from him, there were different things that really tell me that he loved me. I didn’t know that, as an alienated child, they always thought that the rejected parent didn’t love them, or that the rejected parent was dangerous, all of those things. So anyway, that’s when I start to look at this. And I thought, Okay, and then so I thought I would make a documentary film about this. Because part of my background is an indie filmmaker. And before this, I actually made a film about domestic violence and like you refer to it, actually two films about domestic violence. And then, before that, I’ve always been doing a film that is sort of in the topic that’s a little bit heavy. Actually, when I made a comedy, a friend of mine actually joked and said, well, that is the first film that nobody died because I’m always sort of like, working with either serious issues. So anyway, I made a film. And then I thought, okay, I’ll just make another film about parental alienation. I thought I would just go and interview a few people, like, you imagine a film is about two hours long, at most, 90 minutes to 120 Minute. So if you get maybe five or six people, you interview them with a similar story to mine, and you cut it together easily. You can get this done in a matter of a few weeks. So I thought, okay, I’ll go and do this. And I remember even telling my husband, I’ll do this in six weeks, that is more than a year ago. And so I kind of reached out then, in the social media, and just kind of put the word out and said, I’m working on a documentary film about parental alienation, I would love to talk to people that experienced this. I had no idea how big this problem was, and how serious it was. And so the next thing I knew I interviewed over 700 cases now, parents that experience this, and children that experience this and it’s horrific. The cases that went to the extreme, the tragic ending. And then there are some cases that are lighter. There’s some case that just had no hope. And there are cases that people were reunited. So it’s a whole gamut of things. And then, while I’m doing research on this, I did a lot of reading, because my background is in research. So I read a lot of scientific studies about this. And then I interviewed a lot of

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  14:29  

experts in the field about this, and I thought, oh, it’s gonna take me a while to get this film done. And when I finished, it’s only 90 minutes or two hours long. It’s not going to help people that much. So why don’t I start sharing this? So that’s when I started. This is about three or four months ago, I started the Facebook page on a website, and I started to share what I’m learning. So several times a week, we have events like programs where we bring in Forensic psychologists, clinical psychologists, and different experts in the field, and we do this live event on Facebook. And our event reach now is over 86,000 people. And we also syndicate with partners that have over 300,000 people. And so we’re doing events several times a week. And then from there, I just started to get involved with so many things, we just released a book, just last week, one of the series of four books that we’re gonna release before the end of the year, we have a training program that’s coming very soon for professionals so that they can help the victims, we got involved with so many different things the example that I mentioned earlier.

 

Richard Matthews  15:50  

Wow, that’s amazing. And it sounds like you really run the gamut from learning about your own story to learning about other people’s stories to turning this into a full bread, like cultural movement, hopefully going to have an impact on that. Because just from personal experience, it’s not a fun thing, even if it wasn’t done to me, it was done to my stepbrother. And it was still rough. And it’s definitely a form of child abuse. And I didn’t realize it was that widespread of a problem. So it’s interesting to know that and it’s also really cool that you’re doing something about it. And again, that’s why we have people like you on the show because a real hero goes out and changes things for the better. So what I want to talk about then is how you’re using your powers to change that problem, your superpowers. And we talk all the time, every iconic hero has a superpower, whether that’s a fancy flying suit made by your genius, intellect, or super strength, or the ability to call down the thunder from the sky. In the real world, heroes have what I call a zone of genius. It’s either skill, or it’s a set of skills you were born with or you develop over time that energizes everything else you do. And the superpower is what sets you apart and allows you to help your people slay their villains and come out on top of their journeys. And if you look at all the skills you developed over your life, everything from the research to the documentary, filmmaking, those kinds of things, you probably have one skill that sort of ties all those together, something that energizes everything else, and that’s where your superpower is. So with that sort of framing, what do you think your superpower is, that’s allowing you to help people with this struggle?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  17:31  

I think about this all the time, and just recently, I got caught up with a good friend that I haven’t been in touch for years. And I kind of explained to him what I’m working on now. And as a good friend, he asked me questions. And then he also played devil’s advocate. And then he would ask, among these questions, one of the questions was, Why you? Like, why do you think you should be the one who solves this problem?  There are so many people that are more qualified than you that have been working on this for decades, what makes you think that you’re going to solve this problem? And I explained it to him, and I think this would be the answer to your question as to, what is my superpower? And I think it comes with the fact that I am passionate about this, I experience this very deeply, it’s a very visceral experience. It impacted my life, it defined every aspect of who I am, these children that have been alienated, grew up with a lot of problems, trust issues, because you’ve been lied to by one of your parents, and then you lost a relationship with their parent, in the normal family dynamic system, that you’re looking at the attachment theories, children that have a secure attachment to both parents will grow up a lot more healthy, physically and psychologically, than a child that’s lost a relationship. So the children grow up with all those problems, end up stuck in a cycle of abuse. And that’s what I end up. That’s why I made a film about domestic violence because that’s how I end up with relationship after relationship, an abusive relationship with toxic people because we never learned what a healthy relationship looks like, a lot of these children, you know, really, they suffer from this. And then also the parents, you know, and it’s a transgenerational thing. Because when they don’t learn it, they pass it on to their children, and then their children become the victim or the abuser of the same problem. And then we just carry this on generation through generations. And so I experienced this very visually. So I really recognize that you can get skill set and qualification, you can either pick up the skill today, especially today, with YouTube, with anything, you can almost pick up any skill set. So that’s not the problem. And you can bring in the right people if you need them. And that’s what I’m doing, I’m standing on the shoulders of the Giants, I’m bringing the experts and asking them, what is going to be the solution for this, how do we solve this, I’m not doing this on my own, what’s really helping me doing this is my passion, I wake up every day thinking about this, I go to sleep dreaming about this literally day and night, ever since, I recognize this problem. I never stopped. And when my friend asked that question, my answer is if not me, then who? That’s my superpower.

 

Richard Matthews  21:10  

That’s a good way to think about it. If not me, then who? Because someone needs to step up and bring about social change and work on changing the culture. You said a word that strikes really close to home, which is the visceral feeling. It’s like that deep-seated emotional connection with the issue that you have. Because you’ve been there you’ve experienced it, and someone who is on the outside, and studies it or looks at it, they’re not gonna have that same connection with the problem that you would have and the same connection with the other victims. I think it gives you a special place to be. And one of the things that I believe pretty firmly is that mastery begets passion. And as you get better and better at what you’re doing, you’ll just get more and more passionate about the subject, and it’ll have a positive snowball effect on social change.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  22:10  

Thank you. That’s what I’m hoping too. And I think when you come from that place of authenticity, I think you can reach people easier. And you’re able to build collaboration, and then you’re able to bring bigger impact.

 

Richard Matthews  22:29  

Yeah, absolutely. So I want to talk about the flip side of your superpower. So if your superpower is the passion that connects you to this issue, your fatal flaw is the opposite side of that. So just like every Superman has their kryptonite, or Wonder Woman has her bracelets of victory she can’t remove without going mad, you probably have a flaw that’s held you back in growing your business and growing your reach. something you’ve struggled with. For me, it’s been a couple of things in my career, things like perfectionism that kept me from actually shipping products for the longest time, because I always make a few more tweaks here or there. Or one of the other ones was lack of self-care, which meant I let my clients walk all over me because I didn’t have good boundaries. But I think more important than the flaw is how have you worked to overcome it, so that you could continue to grow and continue to have the impact that you’re looking to have. Hopefully, sharing a little bit about your flaw will help our listeners learn from your experience.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  23:23  

I would say that my very big flaw is my money mentality, like, how do you call it? The way that you’re looking at money? It’s weird because I’m a business strategist. Before I went into this, I helped many startups raise money from venture capitalists and angel investors, I taught entrepreneurship at UCLA, I talked to entrepreneurship Bootcamp for veterans with disabilities that got funded from the GI bills. It’s weird that for someone that comes from that business background, I had no problem helping my client back then, with how to build and grow their business and how to make money. But when it comes to things that I do, and especially when that is something that I felt so personal, I felt it’s so wrong to think of how to make money out of this? So I constantly feel like, oh, I can’t charge money for any of these things. And in the long run, that’s actually going to be really serious because I’ve been working on this for over a year. And I have not charged anything to any of the parents.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  24:52  

And that’s going to create a problem in terms of sustainability. So the way that I fixed that is actually I brought in a board of advisors who are amazing executives out there. And we actually look at this. At first, they were trying to push me and said, no, no, you deserve to own this, you can charge these victims a lot of money. We did our research on the median spending that they do on these cases because they get dragged through the court system for decades for years and years and years, trying to fight the custody of the child back. And then a lot of the time, there’s a false allegation, the malicious parent will blame them and make allegations like, sexual abuse, or physical abuse, so, horrific stuff. So these parents spend from $15,000 to several million dollars over the lifetime to try to fight. So they spent a very large amount of money. So for me to charge some money is not a lot. So my advisor, at first was like, no, no, you should try to deserve it. And I mean, I’m creating so much value for these parents, we have a support program that’s free for parents, we have an educational program, it will give all sorts of things. So they keep saying that you should do that. And I was like, yeah, I know it makes sense. But I don’t feel right doing it. And I keep pushing it back. And then eventually they like, okay, we figure it now. So do this so that you can feel good with your conscience, you’re still providing a free solution for the victims. But you can still make this a sustainable business. So what we’re doing is we’re creating a certified training program for professionals. So we are not charging the parent, but we are developing a b2b model instead of a b2c. So instead of selling to the consumer, we are teaching this reunification program, teaching parents how to reunite with their children. And then these therapists or these mental health professionals can create centers around the country and around the world, to help the parents and the children. And so then, in a way, one, it helped the money problem. And two, it also brings a bigger impact, because one of the problems I have right now is when victims reach out to us and said, can you recommend a solution somewhere like who do I go to? We actually have trouble finding people that understand this. Parental alienation is so counterintuitive, that when you talk about oh, there’s a child that rejects a parent, the first thing people will think of is what is this that parent do? There must be something wrong with that father or mother, he or she must be abusive or neglectful in some way, they never stopped to think about oh, there must be somebody else that is manipulating the child,  brainwashing the child. So it’s so counter-intuitive that even professionals are not trained in this, so when therapists look at this, what they do is they will inadvertently become one of the eliminators, they will go oh, the child doesn’t want to see the other parent, let me help the child, let me prevent the child from having to see the other parent, instead of looking at is that, oh, the child need both parents, if there’s a problem, let me fix that problem reunite them. So there’s a lack of understanding and lack of training and resources for those industries. So what we try to solve is to solve this problem from the industry level, providing the solution from the professional level. So providing these training courses for the professional so that they can then bring solutions for the victims.

 

Richard Matthews  28:42  

Absolutely. The money problem is a fascinating problem that is very common in the entrepreneur space, especially when you are an impact business, a business that’s looking to do social change, things like that. And it’s interesting, because one of the reasons I built this show is that for the longest time, and culturally, we still have this problem that entrepreneurs are regularly looked at, as the villains in the story, and you can pretty much pull up any Kids TV show and who’s the villain is, business person, someone’s that’s pouring oil in and killing the ducks, or some variation thereof. And so culturally, especially here in America, we grow up with this mentality that entrepreneurs are evil, and therefore profitability is evil. So we struggle with charging what we’re worth, and we struggle with building businesses that are profitable. And you realize at some point, that in order for a business to have long-term sustainability, and especially if that business is long-term sustainability has a tremendous positive social impact. It also has to have profitability. And so I’m really excited to hear that you guys have come up with a way that both fits with your conscience and allows the business to be profitable and also helps add value to the culture, so that’s a really unique solution for that. Hopefully, our listeners got an idea of one of the ways you can solve that, just by changing the model a little bit about where you’re charging, and who you’re charging who the actual customer is. So, your customer is not the parent, your customer is the professional. And then your parents are the people that you’re helping with those things. So it’s a neat way to shift the model and still create profitability. So anyway, that’s a cool story.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  30:28  

Thank you. I totally agree with you. A bit about the villain thing. I mean, I think, subconsciously, I think that money is evil. Even though on the logic level, I understand that, oh, I need to make sure that I can figure out a way to sustain this, and be able to run these campaigns because it takes money to do things. Even making the documentary film, I invested so much money into it so far. And there’s no money coming in. And so on the logic level, understand that if I don’t make the money, I’m not going to be able to do these things that are important for the parents, for the victims of these children. But then I think subconsciously, it’s hard to break that mentality. I must have learned subconsciously as I was growing up, and I think I associate money with evil in some way.

 

Richard Matthews  31:31  

Yeah. So it comes from a lot of cultural perceptions and storytelling that happens in our stories, frequently it’s an entrepreneur, that is the bad guy, which is certainly a place for that there’s certainly entrepreneurs who are bad guys. But just like anything else, there are bad actors in pretty much every field. But then there are also some religious connotations, where people, like the Christian religion, for instance, there’s a belief that says, the love of money is the root of all evil, which is very different than money is the root of all evil. But so people confuse those two things. And I say, hey, if you’re falling in love with money versus just money itself, money is a neutral tool, just like persuasion is a neutral tool. And you can use persuasion to help someone else. We call that leadership, if we use persuasion so that they help us we call that manipulation. But the tool itself is neutral, it’s persuasion. The same thing with money, money is a neutral tool, and it can be used for good or it can be used for bad. And for whatever reason, culturally, we’ve always, sort of veered towards teaching people and telling stories about money and entrepreneurship and profitability as being evil, when really that’s not the case. And that’s why we exist, because the same kind of social change on a much smaller scale, but hopefully helping entrepreneurs understand that the work that they’re doing is really valuable, and it should be profitable, so they can sustain it and, and help more people.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  32:56  

That is such a cool way of looking at it. Yeah, thank you, I actually really appreciate that analysis.

 

Richard Matthews  33:02  

Well, thank you. That’s cool. So I want to talk about your common enemy. Every superhero has an arch-nemesis, it’s a thing they constantly have to fight against in their world. And in the world of business, that takes a lot of forms. But generally, we put in the context of the people you work with. And so you can probably approach this from a few different ways, either the parents and children that you work with, or the professionals that you’re working with, or the legislators since you guys sort of operating lots of levels. It’s a mindset that you have to fight to overcome. So you can actually create the change you’re trying to create. So with that sort of framing, what do you think the common enemy is with this issue with the various groups of people that you work with?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  33:51  

Unfortunately, there’s widespread misinformation out there, that became a very dangerous thing for victims of parental alienation. And the misinformation out there is this widespread belief that parental alienation is not real and that it is only a legal tool that abusive fathers use to take custody away from the Mother. So there are strong activist groups out there that go and spread this message. For example, there’s a domestic violence situation, the father is abusive, and then the mother is so scared that try to protect the child and then kind of hits the child away. And then the father goes to court and then uses the term parental alienation, invented this term parental alienation in order to take the child away from the mother. And then they went even further to say that the court as soon as I heard this term, immediately, always took the child away from the mother and gave it to the abusive father. Now, this is just completely false. And there has been scientific research to prove this and not to mention thousands and thousands of our audience who have never heard of the term parental alienation before but experienced it themselves. And then by the time they found what we were talking about, they’re like, yeah, that’s exactly what happened to me. So just because you deny something that is not real, doesn’t mean that it’s not real. Like, for example, you can say, Newton discovered gravity. You can hate Newton, as much as you want, you can say he’s evil, he’s whatever. And you can deny his work as much as you want, gravity still exists. It’s still that. So it’s the same thing with parental alienation is very real. It happened to me, it happened to all these people, regardless of whether the scientific or activist group, deny whether it’s real or not. So that’s the first part of it. The other part is that they argue that it’s a tool, and they try to make it as if the father is the only one that’s abusive. And it’s a gender issue is no,  both mother and father are just as likely to be abusers, as well as the victims of this problem. And the court is not blind to this, the court is completely capable of recognizing when this problem is being presented properly, the court looks at that and understands when the abuse has happened, and how to fix the problem. And there has been scientific research looking, looking at 10 years worth of data from all the appellate court cases that involve parental alienation. And they prove this to be true. And despite the scientific background into this, this activist group still going out then spreads his news and that it gets caught in many places. And then what it does is silence a victim. Because, you know, there is something that happened to me, it happened to these victims. And then when you tell me that parental alienation is not real, you are silencing me, you’re telling me that my experience is not real. And you’re looking at any marginalized group out there, you think about, you have a suicidal hotline, you have domestic violence shelter, you have all these sorts of things. Any marginalized group, you have something, but when it comes to parental alienation, guess what, there’s nothing, there’s no hotline to call, there’s no shelter to go. And you look at your child that has been abused. And if you call the police, they’re gonna laugh at you. Oh, your ex is brainwashing your child? Is there a bruise? Did he slap your child if he punched? Until they see something physical, they cannot understand the psychological abuse. So you can check all the child protective agencies, nobody will help you with the system that was designed supposedly to help these children and to help families fail to protect in this particular situation. And so that’s a very serious problem. I’m sorry, I went off track and I don’t even know the origin of the question. I’m sorry. 

 

Richard Matthews  38:11  

No, the common enemy. Is that people don’t believe it exists. And it’s true, right? Because I witnessed it as a child growing up, and there was nothing that my stepdad could do about it. It just not wasn’t a recognizable problem. And they were like, she’s not abusing him. He’s not, he’s not bruised, he’s not injured, he doesn’t have any issues. And she spent so long telling him that his father was evil when he went to the court, he would be like, I don’t want to see him. Because he’s been brainwashed that way. And it was interesting to watch that unfold as a child and so like, I’ve seen the result of that people don’t believe it to be real.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  38:59  

It’s crazy. I will even bring in scientists who have done research on false memory, and memory distortion and they proved how easy it is to brainwash a child. Like even adults, they have done work to show how easy it is to distort someone’s memory and plant complete false memory into someone. And imagine when it’s one parent that does this distortion and the implantation. If you trust that source, then that parent can say anything negative and that little seed of false memory will grow into this big tree full of toxic information. And it’s really sad.

 

Richard Matthews  39:45  

There’s this really interesting thing that goes on with your brain. Your brain is super, super powerful. And it is incapable of making a distinction between something that is visualized in your head. And something that’s a real experience. It’s one of the reasons we love fiction. Because fiction novels they create and storytelling, like cinema, as you guys do is we experience those very viscerally. And they create the same types of memories that real experiences do. So if you have an abusive parent who is feeding stories, especially visceral, emotional stories to the child, it creates the same type of memory that any other fiction would. So it’s how you create what you called false memories.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  40:33  

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that is so true. That’s exactly what’s going on. We, for example, Dr. Elizabeth Loftus, who was an world-renowned expert in memory. And she talked about this and we are bringing more experts in this field to talk about it. And yeah, it’s crazy. It’s exactly like you said, they could not distinguish between the true experience and the false memory. It feels just as real to them. It’s crazy.

 

Richard Matthews  41:02  

Yeah.That’s why we love reading books. Because when you get into the book, it feels real. And you have the memories of going through that story. And those were false memories, you didn’t actually ride on a dragon. You didn’t actually go to the school for Witchcraft and Wizardry, but it feels like you did. Because that’s the way our minds work. So it’s super fascinating. So if your common enemy is fighting against this belief that it doesn’t exist, that it’s not a real thing. The other side of that coin is what you fight for? And so that’s your driving force. So just like Spider Man fights to save New York or Batman five to save Gotham, or Google fights to index and categorizes all the world’s information, what is it that you fight for, with your business?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  41:51  

So I think that would be two things. One is that to get this to be recognized, that it’s a form of child abuse, right now, it’s not properly recognized in the legal system. So that needs to be changed. So right now the system is very inadequate, in recognizing, diagnosing the problem, and providing the appropriate ramification or solution for the problem. So changing that requires a change in this society level, public awareness, as well as into the legal system, as well as the industry. But the other things that I’m fighting is for the parents, and also for the adult children who have experiences and now struggling with their life, is to become the hero, actually, it’s interesting that your show had the term hero, and my business also has the word hero, our business is victim to hero. And that’s what we try to empower the victims is that you can be the hero in your own story, you can be the hero to rescue yourself, you don’t have to sit there and wait, even though there are no resources out there. You know, what we can help you with, we can empower you so that you can be that hero so that you can rescue yourself.

 

Richard Matthews  43:05  

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And the message that you’re providing for people and hopefully helping to restore those relationships, whenever possible, I think that has nothing but positive ripple effects it will have on our society as we go forward. So that’s definitely a problem that is worth fighting to solve. So yeah, I appreciate the work you’re doing. I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about some practical things for actually, working on and growing a business, especially the type of business that you run because yours is a lot about social impact and social change. And so I call this your Hero’s tool belt. And just like every superhero has a tool belt with awesome gadgets, like their batarangs, or web slingers, or laser eyes. I wanna talk about the top one or two tools you couldn’t live without to actually do the work that you do, could be anything from your notepad to use for thinking, or your calendar to keep track of your schedules or your marketing tools, or something you use to actually tell the stories, something you think is essential to getting your job done. What would be your top one or maybe two tools that you use to help grow your business?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  44:12  

So I would say, I mean, obviously, calendar, we all can’t live without the calendar, but I won’t bring that in. But internally Trello is what we use for managing the team in the project because it’s a visual way of looking at things and I’m really bad at multitasking. And without Trello, I think I won’t be able to manage things, so that’s internally, but I want to share the other thing. I would say I think a lot of people are not using enough of it as a life event, going Facebook Live or YouTube Live or whatever. I only focus on Facebook because I know that I don’t have a lot of bandwidth to try to cover a lot of things. So I’m only focusing on Facebook. We do have YouTube, we do have other things. But we only kind of like spending time mostly on Facebook. And even though we are very new our reach is really large, for that time, and as I mentioned, we only started our Facebook about three or four months ago. And our reach now is over 86,000 people, and the reason and that’s why I wanted to share this amazing tool that everyone has access to, is a live event. You know people upload videos, people upload posts, they don’t perform the same way. So there’s nothing like Facebook Live, because or I assume the same with YouTube or other places, there’s nothing like building an audience like that. Because when you’re there your live, people feel like that kind of engagement, where that kind of connection where the audience can see you, and you can talk to them, and you bringing them into a part of the about conversation, you build the kind of commitment and engagement from your audience that you cannot build by uploading a video or post or anything like that. And then things that you ask them during that time, you ask them to like the video or share the video. You know, I mean, when we do for about 45 minutes, we get hundreds of comments in question during that time, and we easily get 60 or 100 shares of that post. But if you just post a video or something, it’s very hard to get that kind of view. And that’s why we’ve got a lot of views each time that we do these events. And I definitely recommend entrepreneurs out there to use that.

 

Richard Matthews  46:37  

So do you have any specific strategies you are using for your lives in terms of how often you’re doing them, or whether you’re doing a regular schedule, or things like that, that might be helpful for those of us who are looking to add live events to our marketing set?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  46:54  

Yeah, so there are a few things about that. I did test it at different times. And I don’t believe that it’ll be the same for every audience. So I would say that you should test it for your audience in terms of the time when you should have the event. So I test different times, and for my audience, I figure out when is a key peak time for my audience. And also when as the less key. So that’s how I’ve scheduled my two or three events a week based on the peak performance time. The other thing is to make sure that you schedule an event so that people know that it’s coming so that they can anticipate it and be ready for it. If you just go and do live randomly. If you just kind of jump on, it’s okay. And I do that quite a bit too. But it’s harder for the audience to know, to be there. So if you set a time, and especially if you have a little bit of time ahead, then people know to schedule it out. So that is definitely the other aspect of it. Another aspect of it is in terms of the content, you need to make sure that the content brings value to the audience. So it’s always a question of, what are they going to be able to take away from this? How are they going to take this information and apply it to their situation, a lot of the time, we would go into other places, because we constantly learn different things. And I would see, people would post things just for the sake of posting it, maybe because it’s the topic that is important in that field, or whatever. I mean, for example, like the thousands of a peer-reviewed scientific journal articles about this field. And if I just post one of those, it has no value to my audience, if I want to post about it, I need to look at the article and think how do I translate this into a layman term? And then, explain how they can use this information? Because otherwise, if I just present the statistical analysis and the data and hypothesis, it doesn’t do anything to the audience. In terms of content, definitely think of your audience all the time. What does it mean to your audience how they’re going to take this away and do something with it like value, always think of the value for your audience. The other aspect of the content is to think about credibility. Because we were relatively new. I say we were because very quickly now we are being recognized as one of the well-respected sources in this field. So now I don’t feel like we are new in that way. We are still new, but we are recognized and respected. But when at the beginning, when you did not have enough credibility or quality or a qualification in that industry, then I will recommend the way to build it is by bringing in other people, other experts so that you can build your credibility on top of other people’s qualification, if that makes sense. So for us, we’re bringing experts, and then we bring in so many experts and there are these giants, these people that have been incredible in the industry that have never ever spoken publicly before. And we are the first people that brought these people to the audience to the public and say, look, these books that you guys read about, this law that you heard that was changed because of this person? Here he is, let’s talk to him, and what is your question for him, right. So certainly, you build your credibility without me having to do that research and write that book. So definitely the internal content that they are the aspect, I would say, in terms of the actual event itself, I think it’s important to structure it, there’s a number of it’s a mix, right between making sure that your content resonates with the audience, and making sure that it brings value. So you can’t just go on and say, okay, here is a takeaway of this, you need to make sure that it resonates. So before people can hear you and believe you and understand what you’re trying to tell them to do. And for them to take on that advice, they need to know that you understand their problem. So the way that you build this event, or this

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  51:18  

top of this video, you have to start with where your audience is, you can’t go straight up to the result, you need to start where they are and you need to make sure they know that you understand their problems. So there’s a lot of repeating things that may seem very basic to you, or whatever, it may seem very obvious, very simple. But you have to start there, you have to make sure that your audience feels that they are heard. So you start from there, and then you slowly bring them up to get to that value point that you want to bring them in. So those that are really important part of it.

 

Richard Matthews  51:58  

And it was almost like a whole mini class on how to do live events. So if I could just sort of recap, make sure you’re testing for the right time. And going for peak time and, doing things like making sure the audience understands and translates the value that you’re bringing. So you’re putting it into their terms, and bringing in other experts to help build your credibility. And then the last one, which is, getting into learning how to speak to the levels of awareness of any particular problem, so you know, everyone in the audience, you have to bring them all to the same level of understanding before you can take them to the solution. Otherwise, if you just start with the solution, you’ll leave people behind who don’t have the same level of awareness of the problem. So it helps you bring everyone to the same spot. That was all really smart stuff for marketers who want to get in and grow their business. So thank you for that very detailed answer.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  52:51  

Thank you. Your welcome. And actually, I want to add something else. So I used to be the producer for Mixergy. I don’t know if you heard Mixergy.

 

Richard Matthews  52:58  

Yeah, I have heard of Mixergy.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  53:00  

Okay, yeah, so I used to be a producer for Andrew Warner. And one of those research that we did, one of the insights that we got from that interview was that we found that very successful businesses actually had what they call imperfect websites and communication. So we actually did invite a guest, on the Mixergy show and shared with us that they did a test like an AB testing. And when a website is perfect with no grammar mistake, or no spelling mistake, and compared to a similar website, but with some grammatical error, or with some spelling mistake, you actually have a better conversion on the one that is not perfect. So imperfection is actually not a bad thing. And a lot of people actually felt like, oh, you know, that is going to be a fatal thing. No, it’s not actually, imperfection actually helps people feel like you are more real. And they feel like you’re not out of reach. You’re not too distant from corporate. So actually, for entrepreneurs out there that are sort of concerned about how they look or how they sound. I mean, like, I have an accent and my grammar is horrible. I add “s” when I’m not and I use past tense and present tense all mixed up. I know that it’s not perfect, but I don’t let it bother me. And in some way, this is who I am. This is me. And I think that authenticity actually helps the connection, rather than trying to be perfect. And then focusing your attention on your longing.

 

Richard Matthews  54:47  

Absolutely. So speaking of I’ve been curious since we started, where is the accent from? What’s your first language?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  54:56  

I’m mixed so I would say mostly Vietnamese.

 

Richard Matthews  55:03  

So is English like your second language or third?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  55:07  

English is my third. 

 

Richard Matthews  55:10  

The language, that’s cool. 

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  55:12  

I’m kind of a mixture of things that I actually don’t know yet. And I think at some point, I probably should do those 24 tests. Yeah? Did you discover things that you didn’t know?

 

Richard Matthews  55:28  

I didn’t find anything I didn’t know. But I did find out that I was a lot more regionally specific than I thought. So like, I knew my family is mostly from the upper Europe area. But it turns out, it’s like 99.8%, like Scotland, Wales, like it’s all in one area, like our whole family line is, which is cool.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  55:49  

Wow, that’s cool.

 

Richard Matthews  55:51  

All the way down to the point we found out, we’re actually part of the royal line for Scotland, Wales. Like if we go back, I think it’s 425 Ad, our great, great grandparents times 27 or 30, or something like that, where the king-queen of Scotland or not, Scotland, Wales.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  56:08  

Wow, that’s amazing. That’s so cool!

 

Richard Matthews  56:11  

If half a billion people die. We’re in line for the throne.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  56:16  

Wow, that’s really cool.

 

Richard Matthews  56:22  

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Richard Matthews  57:53  

So I want to talk a little bit about your own personal heroes. Every hero has their mentors, just like Frodo had Gandalf or Luke had Obi-Wan or Robert Kiyosaki had his Rich dad or Spiderman had his Uncle Ben, Who were some of your heroes? Were they real-life mentors, speakers, authors, maybe peers were a couple of years ahead of you, and how important were they to what you have accomplished so far with your organization?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  58:17  

I had a lot of people that I looked up to. I grew up in such an abusive environment that I felt abandoned. And so I’m sure that you and a lot of listeners relate to this is that when you feel abandoned or not loved you constantly fantasize for someone to rescue you. And so for me, it was reading autobiographies and biographies of these famous people. So I read a lot. And then, when I got to Australia, which is where I spent a big portion of my life when I got to Australia, that’s when I started to reach out to people that I read about, and then in the US as well, I reached out to a lot of these people, and surprisingly, a lot of people that even really, really famous people will respond to you. And people don’t realize this, I think people are just scared to reach out. But for example, I reached out to Stephen Covey, who wrote, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And he was incredible. And I learned so much about the moral compass from him. I reached out to Fred Smith, who is the founder and CEO of Federal Express, and just yesterday, he emailed me, I asked for advice. I reached out to Heidi Roizen, she’s a venture capitalist, she was one of the entrepreneurs that were a very good friend with Steve Jobs, and she sold her company to Steve Jobs, all these people all play different parts of different aspects of what I’ve learned through my journey. And, I think because I didn’t have that relationship with my dad, I was always looking for a father figure. So I did have a very good relationship with a very dear friend who’s now passed on his name is John and Jean, Jean is his wife, Jean is still a very good friend with me now. So in Australia, they really treated me like their daughter. And that really helped so much with my healing. I went through a lot of struggles, with toxic and abusive relationships. And I left Vietnam when I was 16. So you’re still a teenager, and I left by myself to be in a brand new country. I knew nobody. And so to have a family like that, it really forms a lot about who I am. And so John took me in, and he was a very successful entrepreneur. And he had this pharmaceutical line, that’s sort of a herbal natural line that he sells, but he’s also an accountant. So he does a lot of these things. And Jane was a teacher and an artist. So they taught me a lot about what a loving family looks like. And even though I didn’t achieve that, for the longest time, I held that, and I think when you have a clear vision of something, you have a much better chance of achieving it. If I never have seen that, I don’t think I would ever have found my husband now.

 

Richard Matthews  1:01:58  

Yeah, and it’s interesting to find people like that, who can be heroes, in your own life, and help you change and impact those things. I love the idea that you have taken the time to reach out to recognizables, some of the famous people like Stephen Covey, and people like that, and that they would respond. I’ve never tried to do anything like that. But it’s definitely fascinating, for people who are listening or thinking how would I ever get someone like that to call on my show, or respond to an email. Sometimes it just takes time to reach out, right, because it’s worthwhile and gets responses. So that’s very cool. So that basically brings us near the end of our interview, I got one more question for you. And it’s about your guiding principles. One of the things that make heroes heroic is that they live by a code. For instance, Batman never kills his enemies, he only ever brings them to Arkham Asylum. So as we wrap up the interview, I wanna talk about the top one and maybe two principles you use regularly in your life, something that you live by may be something you wish you knew when you first started out on your own journey.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:03:05  

Yeah, actually, this is something that I live with every day, and it doesn’t make it easier. So it’s about ethics, so it doesn’t matter where you are, who you are, you actually are faced with the ethical questions every day. I mean, even the simple things like, do I push this cart, the shopping cart back to where the shop is, it might be over there, or I can just leave it right here next to my car after I unload the grocery, and then just drive off. And no one would see it and nobody that I knew that would see it. And even if somebody saw that I did that nobody would say anything. So it could be that simple scenario. But when you talk about something a little bit more complex, so like I mentioned, we work on building this business, and we grow a pretty large audience in a short time. And so every day, we are being pitched and it’s coming from all directions with people that say who we should work with, or who we should bring on as a guest speaker or, what kind of post or link we should allow in our private Facebook group or things like that. And it’s so easy to just kind of like maybe sneak in, maybe a therapist or lawyer, and then try to pitch them as if they are an expert. And then maybe get a handshake deal of maybe a sponsorship or something on the side. But that would be just like presenting an Ad. And you’ve probably seen this in some magazines where an ad is formatted in a way that it looks just like the articles in the magazine itself. So then the readers when they look at that magazine, or look at that article, and reading all these glowing recommendations, they assume that it’s from an unbiased editorial piece, they don’t realize that it’s actually an ad, so that’s a misrepresentation. For us, we can’t do that. So we have a certain set of principles about ethics, that we are very strict in our requirements about who we choose to work with, who we bring on as a speaker who we bring in and introduce to our audience. Because it doesn’t matter how attractive the offer might look, it’s against our principle. And some people think that it’s a great spectrum instead of black and white. But when it comes to principle and ethics, we actually disagree. I’m not saying that it’s easy to identify what is right or wrong. And I’m not saying and I hate it that people are attacking us all the time, because the people that we decline, they will try to make it sound like we’re being difficult or even kind of do a smearing campaign behind our back. Just because we will not work with people that we don’t believe will meet the requirement to bring value to our audience. So it’s hard to be like fighting all the time. But we will not compromise and we will not apologize for our principles and our value when it comes to the ethics aspect of it.

 

Richard Matthews  1:06:19  

Yeah, absolutely. And I don’t think anyone ever should, it’s definitely a difficult thing, especially when you get into those things that are more complicated, like you were talking about. And it’s hard to decide what’s right or wrong, but once you sort of decided, hey, this is what’s right or wrong, sticking by that. And holding to it really can help your business. It’s like it’s having that integrity. I was like, the picture integrity means you can lean on it and it won’t fall over. It means people can trust you.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:06:49  

Yeah.

 

Richard Matthews  1:06:49  

They can trust what you’re gonna say.

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:06:51  

I love the term. When I met Dr. Stephen Covey in person, and he talked a lot about the moral compass. I love that term. I think that’s a term that he coined. And that’s definitely something that you kind of, it’s not easy, but you have to try, it doesn’t mean that you won’t make mistakes. But you have to walk around and try to have that as a guiding line for how you make the decision.

 

Richard Matthews  1:07:22  

Absolutely. Well, that is basically a wrap on our interview, and I do appreciate you coming on to share your story. Petra, it’s been amazing. But I do finish every interview up with a simple challenge. I call it the hero’s challenge. And we do this to help us get access to stories that we might not find on our own. Because not everyone is out there looking to be on the podcast networks, we’re always looking for cool and unique stories. So the question is simple. Do you have someone in your life or in your network that has a cool entrepreneurial story? Who are they? First names are fine, and why do you think they should come to share their story on our show? First person that comes to mind for you?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:07:56  

Entrepreneurs? 

 

Richard Matthews  1:08:01  

Yeah,

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:08:02  

I do have his name is Rex. He’s working in the business of reviews. So he’s actually the managing partner of GadgetReview.com. It’s a very huge website, where a consumer goes and looks for reviews on let’s say, you wanted to buy a camera, or maybe want to buy even just like a dark carrier. Anything, you go on there. And you will look up a review and you go Oh, between these three brands, this is the best one. So we talk a lot and I can see that he is just not doing this as a business is very conscious about the ethical aspect of this business. How do we bring valuable authentic reviews to the consumer because the consumer trusts him to make their purchase decision. And it’s so easy for him. And it’s the same ethic questions like I just talked about with my situation, he faced with the same challenge as in, how do I make sure that the recommendation that we put together is unbiased so that the consumer don’t just and it’s so easy for him to just kind of sneak in somebody that will pay him a higher referral rate. And then the consumer will just trust whatever he says. He really sticks by his ethic and he’s not looking at revolutionizing that industry, the business has already been very successful. The website has, I don’t know millions and millions of views in the traffic and they are generating in the millions. I don’t know the actual revenue. I know that it’s over seven figures. It’s huge. Yeah. But yet he is constantly focusing on the ethics side of it. He has a team of over 30 people and super down to earth. Super nice guy. And I’m just honored to call him a friend and also an advisor in my business. And I would definitely recommend someone like that in your show.

 

Richard Matthews  1:10:13  

Awesome. Well, we’ll reach out later and see if we can get an introduction. Maybe he’ll say, yes, maybe he won’t, but we try. So thank you so much for coming to our show today, Petra has been amazing. So in comic books, there’s always a crowd of people who clap and cheer for the acts of heroism at the end. So as we close, I want to know where people can find you if they want your help in the future. Where can they light up the bat signal and say, Hey, you know what, I recognize that type of abuse? I’ve been through it. I know someone who has, how can you help? So where can they find you? And then who are the right types of people to reach out and seek your help from your organization?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:10:50  

Yeah, so we have a website victimtohero.com, it’s just fully spelled out, there’s no number two anything like that. And we’re also on Facebook, so it’s also a victim to hero. We are also on other places, but we’re not as active, Instagram, Pinterest, TikTok, Twitter, we’re not so active on those but Facebook particularly, and on websites. We are interested in hearing from really anybody, from parents that experience from children that have experiences from grandparents relatives, because you know, it usually impacts the whole entire family. So anybody and also activists that working in this field professionals are working in this field people that wanted to get into this field. So really, we’re not going to close our door on anybody. We want to hear from anyone because this is a huge problem. It’s gonna take everybody involved to solve this problem. And the victims have nowhere to go. So, anyone that needs help, we’re happy to hear from them.

 

Richard Matthews  1:11:57  

Awesome. Thank you very much for your time today, Petra, it’s been a pleasure hearing your story and hearing about the work that you guys are doing and I hope that your business grows, becomes profitable and sustainable and that you guys have as big an impact on this problem as you possibly can. So again, thank you for coming on during the interview. Do you have any final words of wisdom for our audience before I hit that stop record button?

 

Dr. Petra Deeter  1:12:19  

Believe in yourself. Thank you so much, Richard I appreciate this.

 

Richard Matthews  1:12:23  

 

That’s a good one. Thank you so much. Definitely Believe in yourself!