Episode 056 – Roland Siebelink

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Richard Matthews  

Hello and welcome back to the HERO Show. 

 

My name is Richard Matthews. 

 

I am on the line with Roland Siebelink. 

 

Roland, are you there?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Yes, I am. Hi, how are you?

 

Richard Matthews  

Awesome. Glad to have you here, Roland. 

 

So let me, really quick introduce you to our guest 

 

And we’ll get started. 

 

So Roland is a 25-year plus year veteran of internet business,

 

Entrepreneurship and digital marketing. 

 

You were the former landslide winner of

 

Silicon Valley’s Founder Showcase CEO and co-founder of 

 

Topicmarks acquired by Tagged. 

 

Certain variety of executive strategy, product advisory roles, 

 

Tech CEOs. Worked and lived in four different countries,

 

Who speak six languages, which is a pretty cool. 

 

And you’ve been recognized by the US government 

 

As an “Alien of Extraordinary Ability,” 

 

Which I think is an incredibly funny title. 

 

And so what I want you to talk about, 

 

Talk about to start with is – 

 

Tell us what your business is like now, what are you known for? 

 

Why do people come to you? What do they hire you for? 

 

Why does someone call up Siebelink and say, 

 

“Hey, I need to work with you?”

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, I’ve been very lucky in my career to have been 

 

Three times part of a startup with a group from 10 to 1000 people

 

In about three years time. So I think it’s pretty rare 

 

That people –

 

Richard Matthews  

Wow!

 

Roland Siebelink  

… That even just once. 

 

And I’ve been lucky enough to experience it three times.

 

In the 90s, and the 2000s. And then again in 2010. 

 

So what this has helped me see is some patterns 

 

In what are the drivers that founders, when they get it right, 

 

Really drive that big momentum and hyper growth, 

 

But lso some of the errors that founders typically make,

 

That may make it harder to then reach an exit or 

 

Keep that growth up over time, or to even go public. 

 

So what I do these days, since I’ve had that all experiences

 

I help founders that are in that phase of, let’s say, 

 

Just as a product market fit, like when the company has 

 

A real chance of growing like crazy to help them structure

 

That energy to help make sure that they get the priorities right 

 

With their teams, learn to delegate, learn to hire the right people,

 

Learn to set the right and focus strategy or 

 

Two is execute some discipline around execution.

 

Basically, all about scaling up that company further and further, 

 

And keeping up the momentum.

 

Richard Matthews  

Awesome. So when, are people going to be seeking you out 

 

When they hit that specific point, 

 

Or are they going to not know they have this problem? 

 

So you seek them out and educate them? 

 

How does that work?

 

Roland Siebelink  

So, I do quite a bit of awareness raising, 

 

In terms of public speaking or sometimes just sending 

 

A few tools to people for free. 

 

It’s free for them to use of course, just to get them aware 

 

That they may indeed have challenges I had. 

 

They may not get advice from their testers, or 

 

They may be the very first people in that company 

 

To have ever experienced those challenges. 

 

And ultimately, I think since most of the work we do is coaching 

 

And facilitation, it’s not the kind of businesses that you 

 

Call cold call people and say, “Hey, I think you need a coach,”

 

Because of course, the first reaction is going to be “No, I don’t.”

 

So, it’s more to make people aware that there is 

 

Richard Matthews  

You do so you have to sort of like get yourself 

 

Roland Siebelink  

A whole body of knowledge that exists here in … experience. 

 

And if they can want to tap into that experience, then –

 

Richard Matthews  

That makes a lot of sense. As far as, how you would you get clients. 

 

You sort of have to make them aware that you exist, 

 

Because they may not even know they have these problems 

 

Or the problems that are coming down the road and 

 

Ahead of them a little bit.

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well –

 

Richard Matthews  

So they know … a resource there.

 

Roland Siebelink  

Absolutely. And the other thing that I’m starting to notice 

 

… That clients just refer other startups to me. 

 

Just the other day, I had a long term client has been with me

 

For almost three years now. And they sold another startup 

 

In their city has raised a Series A, and the first thing they do

 

Is introduce these founders to me and said, 

 

“This is what really helped us get to Series B, 

 

And Series C much faster.” So, … check for growth.

 

Richard Matthews  

That makes a lot of sense. 

 

So what I want to get to then next is sort of your 

 

Your origin story. Every hero has their origin story.

 

It’s where you started to realize that you were different

 

That maybe you had superpowers and 

 

Maybe you could use them to help other people.

 

It’s where you started to develop and discover 

 

The real value you can bring to this world. 

 

So how did that happen for you? How did you go from 

 

Someone who’s working in a start up to being a coach for startups?

 

Roland Siebelink  

I think it probably even started before I was working

 

In a real startup because my very first job 

 

After finishing masters in Brussels was to actually work at university. 

 

It was kind of a startup inside the university,

 

… Research Center that was also growing crazy from 

 

Just the professor to 50 researchers in a few years. 

 

And interestingly, that Research Center was focused primarily

 

On adoption of new technology by the market. 

 

So what are the drivers that consumers look for? 

 

What are the drivers that make or break I mean, 

 

Innovation to the market? And so I think

 

That was for a long while, what I felt to be my great chance, 

 

To understand very well, 

 

It’s not just about getting the technology right.

 

It’s not just about getting the marketing message 

 

And the sales right, but how do you actually bridge the two,

 

And how can you be that person that leader, 

 

Who can bridge the technological product sides towards –

 

To market sales and customer satisfaction side. 

 

And that basically, that means … work in a variety of startups 

 

And scale ups, always with that focus 

 

On how do I bridge between technology and the markets.

 

And whatever hats I was wearing. 

 

I was kind of a … product or strategy or marketing, 

 

Or even on some quality at some point in time, 

 

It was always about, how do I get the awesome technology, 

 

That new innovation that’s out there, into the hands of people?

 

Richard Matthews  

That makes a lot of sense, as far as, how you get into that space. 

 

So sort of along the way, did you sort of discover 

 

What your superpower was in helping these companies 

 

To make that transition? So, I like to think of your superpower 

 

Is like the one thing that you really think that separates you, 

 

Differentiates you and makes it that kind of thing 

 

That would – that people need you for?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, it’s interesting that you asked it. It’s always hard 

 

To find your own superpower. 

 

But luckily, when I was working with my first CEO

 

And I was just 28, he said, “You know, I call you when I really need 

 

A broad variety of people to agree on the controversial proposal, 

 

Because you don’t just get them to agree, you get them to commit 

 

Richard Matthews  

And I don’t know how you do it, but you talk a little bit here 

 

Which is a little bit there and ultimately, it all feels to them 

 

Like it’s the key way going forward that need to think 

 

it’s their own idea.” 

 

And so he called me a ‘commitment sculptor,’ which is a

 

Roland Siebelink  

Tagline I’m wearing with pride ever since.

 

Richard Matthews  

A commitment sculptor, I like that. So you actually, 

 

You can get buy in from everyone on the team 

 

To actually make something happen.

 

Roland Siebelink  

Absolutely. I think it’s related to what I’ve known, 

 

What I’ve noticed culturally, 

 

So you can hear it by my funny accent. 

 

I’m from the Netherlands or Holland, originally. 

 

And our culture is known a little bit, outside of … our home country,

 

To be a little bit … Probably, we like to tell truth to people. 

 

We don’t like to be skirmishing around the truth, 

 

As some other nationalities are known for, let’s say. 

 

But what people don’t realize inside our own culture,

 

We’re also extremely consensus-oriented. 

 

We both take sometimes three, four or five hour meetings, 

 

… Which last week in the same meeting. 

 

Just to make sure that everyone still agrees to the conclusion, 

 

So I think, I’ve also helped those two conflicting ideas

 

In my head, in my spirit all of the time, that on the one hand, 

 

You need to start from telling people the truth, 

 

And this is what it is and have an open debate 

 

About how we see the world differently, 

 

But also when it come together around 

 

What’s our common view and what can we decide right now

 

To move this company forward. Rather than both putting up our walls

 

And shouting … “You’re wrong.”

 

Richard Matthews  

One of my mentors used to say that 

 

“A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.”

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s an amazing quote.

 

Richard Matthews  

So, a person convinced against their will is have the same opinion still, 

 

And I feel like you’re the opposite of that.

 

You come in and you help them see the commitment

 

As if it’s their own idea, and move in and really take ownership of it.

 

Roland Siebelink  

And then, that’s probably also why sometimes 

 

I refer to myself more as … than coach. 

 

I believe that ultimate coach takes some time 

 

To grab a passive view. Trying to understand what drives people 

 

And then encourage them to focus even more on their

 

Purpose and attract certain … When you’re in a team setting. 

 

I would say, it’s much more about making the interaction 

 

Of the team easier. And that’s really what facilitation means

 

To make it easier. To understand well, but …

 

If A has an interest in that area and 

 

Person B has an interest in completely unrelated area. 

 

We can kind of combine them together. 

 

They can both agree on this proposal. 

 

Some people may call that politics. 

 

I think there is a good and bad definition of politics.

 

Politics in the best definition is just how do we reconcile 

 

A number of interests into come away forward? 

 

That definition of politics would be – 

 

I just tell everyone what they want to hear. 

 

And … I think obviously, we’d like to avoid second definition.

 

We’d like to stick with the first.

 

Richard Matthews  

That makes a lot of sense. 

 

And the facilitation is a skill all unto itself. 

 

I always sort of felt like, facilitators are the glue 

 

That hold operations together. 

 

Because you’re the one that makes everything really happen, 

 

Because everyone else has their silos, 

 

But someone’s got to connect it all.

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s true. And actually, you bring up a very important points 

 

That really can damage these fast growing startups.

 

Studies that these silos are growing …  

 

Everyone in the silos wants to be an ever better title 

 

With functional title called … network marketer, 

 

Network … engineering, network … finance position, 

 

But there’s very few people that actually try and 

 

Look at the end-to-end result. 

 

How do all these silos actually produce work for the customer together? 

 

And so that’s something that give a lot of attention 

 

To … the workshops I organized with my clients … 

 

Also the CEO coaching. How do we make sure that that there is value

 

That is … crossed with functions, rather than within. 

 

Because mostly it’s not about getting better in marketing, 

 

Getting better engineering, it’s making sure that they’re actually 

 

Intended at all time for the customer.

 

A lot of common and joint effort.

 

Richard Matthews  

So I want to talk about the other side of the coin.

 

So, if your superpower is the facilitation and 

 

The commitment sculptor. … your superpowers, your fatal flaw.

 

It’s something that holds you back, holds your business growth back

 

And that if you fixed it, you can really rock yourself forward. 

 

Just like Superman has his Kryptonite or 

 

Batman’s not actually a superhero. 

 

What’s one of the things that you’ve struggled with 

 

In growing your coaching business? 

 

And more importantly, how have you worked on that 

 

For other people who might suffer from something similar to yours?

 

Roland Siebelink  

I think it’s probably related to if you feel like you know very well,

 

… You are a person to do that, it becomes very hard 

 

To also expand your coaching business with visual intelligence. 

 

This is what I’m known for to really be great 

 

At facilitation and sculpting. Then, I also have 

 

Another coach or facilitator that may have different superpowers. 

 

And so, I think every small business owner typically struggles 

 

With that duplication challenge. 

 

How do we turn this one person’s business into a 3, 4, 5 

 

At a 20% … over time, that we can help ever more startups … ?

 

Richard Matthews  

That makes sense. So, how have you been working 

 

On that in your business to help sort of overcome that 

 

And use that to your advantage instead of being a weakness?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, I started with an associate coach. 

 

This year, we started to spend a lot of time

 

Understanding where our mutual strengths are.

 

Sometimes my superpwer doesn’t …

 

And we’ve actually been innovating with 

 

What I call … coaching, where, just like … programming.

 

We started to take some meetings as two coaches together.

 

Where one is in the lead and that person is really coaching. 

 

But the other coach listen in and providing some 

 

Actionable feedback to the lead coach to make sure 

 

That they keep asking other questions 

 

That they get more inspiration off. 

 

And that has been a tremendous increase 

 

In coaching power for us to coach … to have that …

 

Support as a coach …

 

To provide much better coaching services …

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s actually a really cool idea. 

 

It’s something that I actually do that occasionally

 

With some of my clients. I don’t have a set up, 

 

Like a professional business thing, but one of my people,

 

My business partner will occasionally get on client calls together 

 

And he’ll do nothing other than just listen and 

 

See where you missed questions. Like, “Maybe you should have

 

Dug a little deeper there. 

 

Maybe you should poke that thing a little bit more.” 

 

And it’s really helpful to have another eye like that. 

 

I mean, I could see how that would be a  –

 

That’s a really useful way to shore up 

 

The skills in your coaching business.

 

Roland Siebelink  

I think it’s it’s having the confidence 

 

That we can all constantly get better and more work.

 

And I think what really made a difference for us 

 

And such a big increase in … was done live. …

 

… Actually texting. We just use norma text, 

 

But I will get texts if I’m going to coach …

 

What’s the energy behind or why is he silent?

 

It seems like that.

 

If the other person’s the lead coach then, 

 

I will basically just … in the background

 

… But make sure that the lead coach is constantly also getting

 

Snippets of suggested questions …

 

Richard Matthews  

So how many coaches do you have on your team now?

 

Roland Siebelink  

At the moment, we’re five. They’re not always full time,

 

But it keeps growing. And basically some are more specialized

 

In one-on-one coaching. 

 

Some are more specialized in team facilitation, 

 

Business coaching, some geographical specialization, 

 

But to be honest, we’re still figuring out how to 

 

How the puzzle all fits together. …

 

Richard Matthews  

You gotta do your own version of your coaching for your business

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s exactly right. You’re not the first to tell me that.

 

Richard Matthews  

So I know how that goes in my business.

 

I say, it’s like the cobbler’s son, he’s got no shoes. 

 

Our own business gets ignored while we help our clients and 

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s right.

 

Richard Matthews  

I think its primary problem of entrepreneurs. 

 

Roland Siebelink  

I asked my mom, my parent’s work

 

What does your son do for a living? 

 

Teacher of … basically, teaches teachers how to raise children.

 

Said, “Oh, well then you must be great parents themselves. 

 

So, I still remember that look on their faces like

 

And some other varieties of the …

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s funny. So my next question for you 

 

Is about your common enemy. 

 

Every superhero has their common enemy. 

 

And in this case, think about it like when you bring on a new client, 

 

If you could remove one thing from their life, 

 

From their mindset, from their organization, 

 

From something that is just holding them back, 

 

You can just wave your magic wand and make that go away. 

 

You could just get results for them better faster. 

 

What is that thing you keep running into 

 

That’s holding your clients back?

 

Roland Siebelink  

I have to say –

 

Fake self-confidence that makes people close …

 

And the people who are almost not comfortable, 

 

so … have such a high-regard of themselves fake 

 

Or true that they say, “I just know everything.”

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s actually really interesting because 

 

You’re one of the first people we’ve had on that works with startups, 

 

Mostly, clients range all over the place from other guests. 

 

And generally, it’s having too low of a confidence 

 

That people are running into. And it’s interesting that 

 

You run into the opposite problem in the startup space.

 

The people that are overconfident and maybe need 

 

To realize where their own weaknesses are.

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, founders are a special breed of people 

 

To be fighting against the whole world 

 

With the perspective … except that no one believes him.

 

It’s a very different skill set. 

 

So every founder, that success has come through … years of that

 

Relentless fighting against what everyone else … 

 

Is common sense. So no founder is without a very strong personality.

 

Some learn from that and say, “I need to stay open.

 

I need to keep … from all sources.”

 

But there are some others 

 

Who ultimately always referred to I know …

 

I wouldn’t necessarily say that that means 

 

That they’re so confident it may mean that 

 

They’re almost afraid to recognize that … 

 

There’s some deep psychological ego sometimes, 

 

But it will not be something that we can fix in just a few sessions. 

 

And that’s the case then, between …

 

Richard Matthews  

I could see how that’d be difficult to to work through 

 

But that’s why people hire you. So my 

 

… Of course so if we can all challenge the clients

 

A little bit, then that’s usually a very bad sign.

 

Roland Siebelink  

The ones that 

 

Have a great experience, when we work with them

 

Are the ones that actually liked to be challenged.

 

“Please say to my team that is super great to be challenged.”

 

Richard Matthews  

So my next question has to do with your driving force. 

 

So, if your common enemy is something that you’re fighting against,

 

Your driving force is something you’re fighting for. 

 

So just like Spider Man fights to save New York or 

 

Batman fights to save Gotham or in a startup space, 

 

Google fights to categorize all of the world’s information. 

 

What is it that you fight for in your company?

 

Roland Siebelink  

I fight for turning a say … vulnerable start up with a great …

 

Into a world … company.

 

That can stand on its own feet all the time

 

Where the founder can still be completely in-charge. 

 

While all the time, they still kept that original CEO.

 

That’s my key point there. 

 

It’s easy to turn a startup into maybe of more of a traditional company …

 

… That changes the world 

 

… And that’s really my goal, to keep that company …

 

Richard Matthews  

I can see it’d be quite challenging because as you grow, 

 

It’s hard to keep that lean mentality and that movement

 

That sort of makes the startup. So I’m kind of curious, 

 

Actually on that point, you mentioned earlier that 

 

One of the things you’re helping the startups with is figure out 

 

What their exit strategy is. Now, are most of the startups 

 

When they’re looking to build their company, 

 

Are they looking to build for acquisition or 

 

Are they looking to build for to become like market leaders?

 

What’s the goal, generally?

 

Roland Siebelink  

I’d say the goal is usually just to grow, grow, grow, grow, grow,

 

But I help them crystallize a little bit more. 

 

What does that mean? Does it mean that ultimately your … 

 

Becoming a market leader?

 

Which I generally … , or does it mean that 

 

You just want to have a couple of good years 

 

And then basically, start moving on to your next thing, 

 

Which typically wise if you want to 

 

Optimize more towards your next thing.

 

In reality, it doesn’t make that much of a difference 

 

In how you manage that because at any point in time, 

 

We need to maximize value for investors …

 

I always say the best acquisitions are going … to be acquired works.

 

… Trying to sell themselves, right. 

 

So in terms of the real day today …

 

Is what doesn’t make a difference is just keep your eyes open 

 

To potential exit opportunities.

 

One startup by words within directly

 

for exit opportunities … for feedback.

 

And one of the VCs …

 

…

 

opportunities both got mutual relationship that actually

 

Turned into a …

 

Richard Matthews  

I can see what happened. You helped raise that company 

 

You want to bring it into the fold. 

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s exactly right.

 

Richard Matthews  

So ask you a more practical question.  

 

But I call this the Heroes Toolbelt. 

 

So maybe you got a big magical hammer like Thor or 

 

Bulletproof vest, like your neighborhood police officer. 

 

Maybe just really love how Evernote helps you 

 

Organize your killer slides? What are some of the things

 

That you use, practical tools you use to really help

 

Drive home the work that you do for your clients?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, I would say the the key thing is our quarterly workshops. 

 

Next to that, we would be referring to the one page tools 

 

That we put in front of our clients. And the third one would be 

 

The tech scale of health check. So I start with quarterly workshops, 

 

Even if they may be a little bit old-fashioned, 

 

But it really makes a big difference for a team

 

To take one day, a quarter, to just sit together 

 

In one room and discuss issues openly. 

 

We fill up that day tremendously with eight to nine 

 

Different exercises …  which are designed to bring 

 

As many thoughts to the table, as possible. 

 

So we all use people putting their thoughts on sticky notes.

 

We only debate after the whole consensus 

 

Is displayed on the wall. 

 

And not only does that lead to consensus much more often 

 

And much more rapidly than people would otherwise be able to. 

 

It also gives people a constant gauge of actually what – 

 

How valuable are the contributions of different people on the team.

 

How quickly do I see things actually working? 

 

Because people are giving me new ideas, 

 

Even if I thought that that person in the team 

 

Was really not that useful. That’s a big, big thing that comes out 

 

And every workshop finishes with five different priorities

 

That the team set themselves for the next quarter. 

 

So there’s always a huge commitment at the end.

 

Maybe that’s related to my commitment-sculpting profile. 

 

Making sure that there’s only a list of top five priorities 

 

That they can then know. They know how to measure, 

 

They know who owns them, and they know how to announce them 

 

To the teams, as well for new energy for next quarter. 

 

The second, I would say is, there are many

 

Management books out there and they’re all very valuable, 

 

But nobody in a startup situation has time 

 

To be reading management books all the time. 

 

So what we do is we summarize some of these 

 

Management books into simple one-page tools called,

 

We call them Decision Sheets. And these are often 

 

The basis for exercises, whether it’s in the workshop or 

 

It’s just remote when we do a coaching exercise. 

 

We’re quickly debtors, the thoughts gives people, 

 

Ask people some questions and very quickly gives an idea of, 

 

“Okay, how do I solve this particular problem?” 

 

For example, one is the talent gauge. And we asked people 

 

To quickly map when they have some doubts 

 

Whether they have the right people on the team.

 

We ask them to quickly map all the people on their team 

 

Into a two-by-two matrix based on some questions that we ask. 

 

Very simple tool. 

 

But it’s amazing how quickly this leads to conclusions. 

 

Actually, I’ve underestimated this person, 

 

I need to mentor them more, or I need to provide them 

 

With more coaching, maybe even promote them. 

 

Whereas, that other person, now I suddenly see why 

 

That person is taking so much energy because 

 

They’re really just not a good fit with the values of the company. 

 

And so that doesn’t necessarily have to mean 

 

That a correction needs to take place, 

 

But it just means that people become much more aware 

 

Of what is sucking their energy? What is driving the team forward? 

 

And where can they make slight changes

 

To move that in the right direction. 

 

And the last one I mentioned was to tech scale up health check, 

 

Since rating and assessments we’ve developed in-house 

 

That gives tech scale ups an idea how well they are performing

 

On 11 different dimensions against other tech scale ups in the field. 

 

And so it’s about; is your marketing better, is your sales better, 

 

And your talent acquisition, your strategy.

 

All of these give a quick overview how you are performing 

 

Against more of the norm, so that people know 

 

What blind spots they may have and where they may want to

 

Sit the new priority for the next quarter.

 

Richard Matthews  

Now, that sounds like some pretty powerful tools. 

 

I’m curious on your quarterly reviews that you do with a big team.

 

How would you? – Because it sounds like a really good idea. 

 

How would you scale that down to someone 

 

Who’s running a smaller team, maybe a solopreneur or 

 

Someone who’s got maybe one or two people on there? 

 

They want to do the same thing, 

 

When they’re wearing most of the hats. 

 

What does that look like?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, first of all, I’d probably suggest that 

 

That needs to be done more often. 

 

So, a quarterly review is great for a company 

 

Of 40-50 people or more. But if we’re talking about

 

Just a few people, or one person that takes all the decisions, 

 

In most cases, I’ve actually recommend that

 

They do that on a monthly basis, and they don’t set themselves

 

These longer term quarterly goals 

 

Because the world moves much faster. 

 

Plus, you don’t need all the time to convince others in your business.

 

That this is the right idea. So, and that’s why we typically 

 

Support single entrepreneurs or or solopreneurs 

 

With more of a mastermind structure. 

 

People who meet on a monthly basis. 

 

They are remote groups, typically six to nine people

 

In one group or entrepreneurs in different fields, 

 

But typically around the same development stage 

 

Of their company. And we essentially asked them 

 

To draw up these priorities in and even before 

 

The masterminds share them with each other. 

 

And then the team holds people accountable 

 

To reaching those goals across the month that is going ahead. 

 

Typically, we’re not looking at five goals or something like that, 

 

More like just one goal, maybe two. But to keep it simple to say,

 

“Okay, this is the one critical point I need to fix about my business.

 

And I can take a first step before next month’s meeting. 

 

That’s how we will help people more in a solopreneur or 

 

Very small business situation.

 

Richard Matthews  

I like that. That sounds like something I need to do 

 

With some of my mastermind buddies and set like a monthly

 

Monthly like, “Hey, what’s our do or die thing 

 

This month for our company?”

 

Roland Siebelink  

… at the moment in a mastermind?

 

Richard Matthews  

So we do a number of things. But we don’t have a single 

 

Do or die task that we’re we’re focusing on.

 

Roland Siebelink  

It makes it … I think it will make a big difference. 

 

I do recommend you will try it. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Richard Matthews  

Absolutely.

 

Music is by https://www.purple-planet.com/

 

So, I want to talk a little bit about your own personal heroes.

 

So Frodo had Gandalf, Luke had Obi Wan Kenobi. 

 

Robert Kiyosaki had his Rich Dad. 

 

Who were some of your heroes? Were they real life mentors? 

 

Were they speakers or authors? 

 

Peers who were just a couple of years ahead of you? 

 

And how important were they to what you 

 

Accomplished, so far, in your coaching business?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Okay, very good and very interesting. I’d say –

 

I definitely have a few business authors 

 

That were heroes to me. 

 

Probably more general management-oriented ones. 

 

I would say Peter Drucker has been a huge source 

 

Of inspiration to me. For many years, I’ve read almost 

 

All of the books and I will still. When I feel the demotivated, 

 

Just grab one of the books, read a few pages, 

 

And I’m motivated again. And then second, 

 

I would say in the particular space of tech scale ups, 

 

I’d recommend Geoffrey Moore with his Crossing the Chasm.

 

Body of Works and then, there’s a few other books, as well,

 

Very inspirational and really describing what works 

 

In the tech scale up phase. And then afterwards, 

 

I would say, Bernhard Nish with the book scaling up. 

 

It’s also been a huge source of inspiration to me 

 

Just by offering a practical guidance for how to –

 

How to grow a company, whether it’s a tech scale up. 

 

In Verne’s case it’s more written for other kinds of companies,

 

Such as a hotel, or consulting company or any other company 

 

That is just growing organically, 

 

But I’ve learned a lot from that book nevertheless. 

 

And joins for instance, coaching organization to make sure 

 

I could apply these tools and these concepts 

 

To tech scale ups, as well. Next to that, I would say definitely 

 

Have a few heroes also a former CEOs I’ve worked with or 

 

Sometimes known CEOs, like a controller or phone company 

 

I’ve worked with or a head of marketing that I used to work for 

 

And so I’d say, none of this none of them is probably 

 

Become like the single hero that was always the best. 

 

It’s more like you learned a little bit from everyone. 

 

And how do you combine these learnings 

 

Into a new body of knowledge?

 

Richard Matthews  

And I love the Peter Drucker stuff as well. 

 

I’ve read a couple of his things and they call him  

 

The Godfather of modern day marketing, essentially.

 

Roland Siebelink  

And management’s right. And management was considered 

 

A positive term and not just in opposition to leadership.

 

Richard Matthews  

So let’s bring it home for our listeners and talk a little bit about

 

Your guiding principles. What are the top one or two principles 

 

Or actions you put into practice on a regular basis 

 

That you think contribute to the success that you have 

 

In your company and the success that you’re clients see.

 

Roland Siebelink  

So I think for anyone in a leadership position, 

 

The first principle you have to live by, I feel is 

 

You walk the walk, and not don’t just talk the talk.

 

So you have to set the right example. 

 

Actually, do what you want done and not just talk about it. 

 

I think that’s one of the most important principles. 

 

And the other one is to dare to think different. 

 

In many cases, a startup that scales up alone will remain successful, 

 

If they really work in a different way. 

 

Then, the incumbent competitors in that field. 

 

And so, if you’re always trying to emulate bigger competitors,

 

Or bigger companies in your field, 

 

It actually will distract from your success, 

 

And it’s much more important to find out,

 

“Well, why are they doing things this way?

 

Does that mean I should do the same or 

 

Is it better for me to take a kind of opposite approach 

 

Because there’s more room to grow in those fields. 

 

Does that make sense?

 

Richard Matthews  

I always used to think of that as, if everyone else is doing it, 

 

It’s probably wrong. So we should go exactly the other direction.

 

Roland Siebelink  

Well, few years ago, we were in the aquarium 

 

In Monterey, California. And they have this gigantic tank 

 

With all the, I think it’s anchovies or sardines, 

 

All swimming around in circles day and night. 

 

And there was one that was swimming the other direction. 

 

And my husband points to that fish and says, That’s you.

 

Richard Matthews  

You’re the one going the other direction. 

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s right. 

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s the way I think about life too. 

 

If everyone else is going this way, 

 

You should go the other direction. 

 

And it’s actually, it’s really helpful in business too. 

 

Because when you are looking at the direction of your company 

 

And what you’re doing, that’s how you stand out. 

 

It’s the one fish you notice in the crowd. 

 

It’s one going the other direction.

 

Roland Siebelink  

… Fish, that’s for sure.

 

Richard Matthews  

You remember the fishes is going the wrong way. 

 

And that’s an important skill. And I think it ties 

 

Right into something that – I work in the marketing space. 

 

And one of the things that happens all the time 

 

In the marketing space is people are always talking about 

 

Certain tactics or strategies that are dead.

 

Everything’s always dead. Email is dead and direct mail is dead, 

 

And Facebook marketing is dead, and whatever it is, 

 

It’s always dead. And I always, like, if it’s dead 

 

That means if someone’s trying to tell you it’s dead,

 

They’ve got something to sell you. And I think,

 

You go the other direction with it. 

 

And instead of talking about how everything else is dead, 

 

Why don’t you just show people why 

 

Whatever you’re doing is actually going to work. 

 

And show people results. And it’s just doing the opposite 

 

Of what the market does because the the lazy marketing is like, 

 

“Hey, whatever you’re currently doing is dead. 

 

You should try our way instead.”

 

Roland Siebelink  

And you’re so right, especially in the marketing space. 

 

There are so many people who basically have a hammer 

 

And to them everything looks like a nail. 

 

And there’s not even a questioning of first principles 

 

Like, does it even make sense to recommend social media 

 

To one who’s only in business-to-business? 

 

For example, are the buyers even on social media? 

 

These things are, I think, fundamental questions that 

 

No social media experts will ever even ask.

 

Richard Matthews  

So there are like, if you run social media campaigns, 

 

Then the answer to all of your clients problems is social media. 

 

And I think sometimes, bringing someone like you in or myself 

 

Come in and be like, “Hey, let’s actually step back a little bit 

 

And where are your customers?” 

 

And what are the problems they have? 

 

And how can we reach them and use the strategies 

 

That reaches them best, that might actually be direct mail.

 

Roland Siebelink  

It’s possible. 

 

Richard Matthews  

It’s possible. It could be that’s how you need to get ahold of them

 

Is with direct mail. 

 

Roland Siebelink  

… So it must be doing something right.

 

Richard Matthews  

It’s still there. It still works. And it’s probably not dead. 

 

So what I want to talk about last, but one of the last things 

 

We do on the show is something I call the Hero Challenge.

 

Hero Challenge is pretty simple. I do it on every show.

 

And it’s basically this, do you have someone in your life or

 

In your network that you think has a cool entrepreneurial story? 

 

Who are they? First names are fine. 

 

And why do you think they should come share their story

 

Of entrepreneurship on our show?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Interesting. So let me think, I would recommend Rick 

 

Who has had a longer entrepreneurial story than most. 

 

Where it took almost 15 years for them to reach an amazing exit. 

 

And so that would be an interesting story. On the other hand, 

 

Early stage entrepreneurs such as Rob, 

 

Who are working on real problems, to change the world through,

 

For example, wind energy, and working 

 

Richard Matthews  

Cool

 

Roland Siebelink  

… just as an ex students and trying to raise 

 

The first rounds of funding, very interesting stories all of them.

 

Richard Matthews  

So we can connect later about about meeting someone like that 

 

On the show. For now though, what I’d like to do is

 

Find out where people can find you. If they’re in that space,

 

I don’t know how many startup entrepreneurs 

 

I have in my audience. But if I do have someone

 

In the startup space, where can they find you work? 

 

And what type of what’s like the ideal customer? 

 

Where should they be in their business before

 

They reach out to someone like you?

 

Roland Siebelink  

Ideal customer is a company that has just just 

 

Raised their series A or is close to doing so. 

 

We typically start around that time. 

 

And if they are in the software business, 

 

They’re even more ideal because those are the ones 

 

That we really focus on. It doesn’t have to be in Silicon Valley 

 

Because we actually serve startups all over the world. 

 

We’re not geographically focused, sometimes we can 

 

Even help more outside of the bay area than inside it. 

 

Because we bring a lot of that knowledge to people in 

 

Other cities and other countries. 

 

The best way to reach out to me is to find the website

 

So http://scalingsiliconvalleystyle.com/

 

http://scalingsiliconvalleystyle.com/

 

Which is also the title of my book, 

 

And where people can download three chapters and 

 

Also reach out and just ask questions in every way, 

 

Any way they want to.

 

Richard Matthews  

Awesome, thank you very much for that. 

 

So if you’re in that space, and you’re listening to this 

 

And you need to – you want someone to come and 

 

Help you take that to the next level, 

 

Definitely reach out to Roland. 

 

Obviously, he knows what he’s talking about here.

 

Has a lot of good knowledge in this space. 

 

And with that, I just like to thank you so much 

 

For coming on the show, Roland. Really appreciate it. 

 

It’s been a very cool conversation. Thanks for coming on.

 

Roland Siebelink  

Thank you so much, Richard. 

 

Much appreciated the invitation. It was a pleasure.

 

Richard Matthews  

So last thing, do you have any final words 

 

Of wisdom for our audience?

 

Roland Siebelink  

That’s a difficult question to finish off with.  

 

I think ultimately, learn a lot. Get as much information 

 

As you can from other people in your space. But be authentic. 

 

Be yourself because as a leader, 

 

As a somebody changing the world, 

 

All you can do is be authentic to yourself, 

 

And that’ll give you the driving force to really change the world.

 

Richard Matthews  

You heard him guys, be authentic. 

 

Thank you so much for coming on the show, Roland. 

 

Really appreciate it. 

 

Roland Siebelink  

Thank you, Richard.