Episode 042 – Shawn Anderson
Welcome to another episode of The HERO Show. I am your host Richard Matthews, (@AKATheAlchemist) and you are listening to episode #42 with Shawn Anderson – Making The Adventure Bigger Than The Fear.
Shawn is the Founder of Extra Mile America and the creator of “Extra Mile Day” in the United States–a day recognizing the capacity we each have to create positive change in our families, organizations, communities and ourselves when we “go the extra mile.” On November 1, 2018, 553 cities made the unique declaration and recognized the superstar volunteer heroes in their communities.
In August of 2019, Shawn has completed a 450-mile walk across France.
Here’s just a taste of what we talked about today:
- Becoming the “Extra Mile Man”.
- Starting entrepreneurship at age 10 & becoming rich in baseball cards.
- Sometimes, you can’t build and hope people will come.
- How to reach a point where you can pick who you work with & no longer chasing the dollar.
- Learning about profit margin and revenue at a very young age.
- “Extra Mile America”
- Playing the game of attention–Marketing.
- Having a deep belief in one’s self.
- There’s no competition for a man who’s willing to do the work.
- Life will wear you down unless you keep your passion at the top of your list.
- The unexpected happens all the time.
- If you wait until you’re ready to do anything, you’ll never do anything.
- The key to growth is taking risks.
- Making the adventure bigger than the fear.
- “No Regret Living”
- This is my time because someday it will no longer be my time.
- The self awareness that we are imperfect beings.
- Today is the best day of the week. Today is a do over.
- Structuring your day give you more freedoms.
- Control the morning. Control the day.
- The more flex time we build into our schedules, the healthier our attitudes, the healthier our mindsets, the healthier our lives.
- Daily accountability.
- Giving the body and brain a time out.
- Planting seeds and watering seeds to live richly.
The HERO Challenge
Today on the show, Shawn Anderson challenged Brad and Libby Birky to be guests on The HERO Show. Shawn thinks that Brad and Libby are a fantastic interview because they designed the foundation of SAME (So All May Eat) Café on the back of a cocktail napkin and on a page from the in-flight magazine.
Brad and Libby Birky had devoted hours to soup kitchens and food banks. They want to do their part in the fight against hunger.
How To Stay Connected With Shawn Anderson
Want to stay connected with Shawn? Please check out their social profiles below.
Also, Shawn mentioned his book, Amicus on the show. You can get your copy here: https://shawnanderson.com/Amicus-101-inspiring-book.
Call To Adventure
Don’t forget you can stay connected to me and the show by subscribing now. Just text ALCHEMY to 444999. Or you put your email address in the box at the bottom of this page. You’ll get all sorts of cool gifts, be updated about our contests and polls, and get notified when we publish new episodes. With that… let’s get to listen to the episode…
The Webinar Alchemy Workshop: https://richardmatthews.me/fs/waw-slf/
Hello, and welcome back to the HERO Show.
Richard Matthews here. I have Shawn Anderson on the line.
Are you here, Shawn?
Richard, Yes, I hear you perfectly well.
It’s good to be with you, Richard. Thank you.
Awesome. Let me do a quick introduction for you.
So people know who you are. And then we’ll get into
Talking about your story.
So you are number one ranked “Motivation” and “Self-help” author,
International keynote speaker and
Results producing people builder.
You have a “go the extra mile” philosophy, which is really interesting.
I want to hear a little bit more about that.
And you’ve been able to produce winning results that
Have been praised by political leaders, Olympic gold medal,
And world record holders. I’m just skimming through
Some of this stuff. I want to talk a little bit about as we
Get into this day, the extra mile America and some of your,
Walked across France and a couple other countries.
Sounds like you’ve done a lot of really cool stuff there.
So before we get to all of that, what I want to
Find out from you, Shawn is what are you doing for now?
What is your business like? Why do people hire you?
Or why do people call you up and say,
“Hey, I want to work with you, Mike or Shawn”
I’m sorry. I’m not sure why I said Mike.
Well, really my main philosophy is all about going the extra mile.
It’s about pushing just a little bit harder
To get to where we want and that’s what I’m known as,
This extra mile man. And it’s something that’s
A part of everything I do with the organization,
Extra Mile America where we have Extra Mile Day,
It’s how I live my life, walking across countries,
Literally walking the extra mile. Everything I do,
Every success I’ve ever had, it’s because I wasn’t
Just content with doing the basic
But I wanted to achieve the goal. And I found out
That you can’t just do the basic
If you want to achieve the goal.
You’ve got to do more,
You have to add more value.
You have to go the extra mile.
Absolutely. Are they hiring you
To do speaking, or are they hiring you
To do coaching or are they hiring you
To come in and work with their team?
What is it that people hire you to do?
I’m really blessed in my life in the sense
That I’ve been an entrepreneur my entire life.
And I’ve really reached a position of success
That I don’t chase the dollar anymore.
I don’t worry about the dollar. Right now,
I focus on two things: I focus on doing
Keynote speaking and I’m lucky to pick
And choose. I want to keynote. I focus on writing.
I’ve written seven books. My last book was called,
“The Four Fibs,” and I focus on Extra Mile America.
Besides that, I live the life I love.
I have a couple of clients that I work with
On retainer, long time retainer,
But I no longer accept any more clients.
So, I’m really blessed. I really pick and choose
What I want to do every single day.
I live my heart.
What I want to talk about then,
Is how this all started for you. Your origin story,
Every hero has their origin story.
It’s where you started to realize
That you were different that maybe you had
Superpowers and maybe you can use them
To help other people. You said minute ago,
That you’ve been an entrepreneur your whole life.
How did that journey start? How did you get on
And become an entrepreneur? It was like
Childhood business kind of thing? How did it go down?
I think you and I are kindred spirits in that.
I read a little bit about your biography,
And how you had started young, buying boxes of candy
From the big stores and then going to school
And upsell unto your fellow students. Clever.
My first entrepreneurial businesses was about age 10.
I would flood my parents backyard at nighttime
So the giant night crawlers would rise
To the top of the soil. I would then gather those dudes
Up, put them in a peat moss barrel, run an ad
In the Reno Evening Gazette on the weekend,
Sit out there every Saturday morning, super early.
The fishermen, which stopped by my address
Because they knew that I had the best, biggest,
And most amazing worms ever. I would sell those dudes,
About a baker’s dozen. They would come again
And again and again. And I became rich
In baseball cards because I learned early
That if I worked hard, I could get what I want.
And I turned nightcrawler money
Into baseball cards. There you have it.
That is really cool. That sounds very similar to mine.
Where I definitely bought candy wholesale
And sold retail to my friends at school.
And I remember very vividly my first lesson
And the difference between profit margin and revenue.
Because I was confused, as all get-out.
When I spent $50 on candy. And I made $100
And was trying to figure out why. I was like,
“I made $100 profit,” and you realize it’s not $100 profit
Because you have cost of goods sold. I didn’t know
Any of those things. So, I only had $50 profit.
And I remember sitting that money down.
You thought you were getting the candy for free.
It was a donation to the company.
But it didn’t work like that, did it?
I got my hundred dollars, I had to pay back the loan.
So get my dad $50 back. And then I had to restock
My supplies. So, I spent $50. And I was like,
I sold $100 worth of candy and I have nothing,
What’s going on here. I thought I was running
A successful business. I remember, specifically,
Learning that lesson really early. Having to ask
My dad what is profit, and trying to get
Those kinds of things to find. But it’s a fun game
To play, especially as a young kid. And it gets you
To realize that you’re in control
Of what you create and how you create it.
You brought up a really interesting point,
As you were telling your story, Richard. Sometimes,
You just can’t build something and hope
That they will come. It was like that movie
With Kevin Costner a long time ago called, “Field of Dreams,”
Build it, and they shall come; that’s just not true.
It’s not true because look at how many websites
There are. Everybody who has a dream. And they thought,
“Man, if I just put it out there, Google’s going to find me
And they will come.” But you hit upon something,
As you were telling your story, you hit upon,
Investing. Investing into yourself, investing
in the product. There was a cost to really
Put out there. Yours was money, then it was time.
But if we’re not willing to put in some sort of real investment,
We’re never really going to grow our businesses.
And it’s interesting, because that investment is
It can be time, it can be money, it can be both.
Sometimes it’s blood, sweat and tears to build a skill set
That other people are interested in availing themselves of.
You have to put it in to get it out, so to speak.
I feel like a lot of times entrepreneurs,
Especially at the beginning, they don’t realize
How much effort it takes to actually build something
That’s worthwhile. And to get the point
Where you are, where you can pick and choose,
That doesn’t just happen,
And you have to really try for it.
Sometimes you can have the most talented person
In the world that is so darn good.
But if the world doesn’t know about your talents,
Nothing’s going to happen. Marketing is becoming,
I know that you’re a marketing expert, and so you
Can speak on the subject way better than me.
But people really need to put on a marketing hat.
And if you’re not a marketer, and you have a business
Or an entrepreneur but the project that you’re working on,
Or if you’re an artist, or a writer, whatever.
If you don’t learn marketing, you better
Surround yourself with the best marketing people
In the world, and you better have at least
Some understanding of what they’re doing,
Because marketing is how you’re going to succeed.
I tell people, the game that we play,
That everyone plays, is the game of attention.
And if you learn how to win basically,
Is you have to get attention and a lot of revenue
And fans. And that’s what marketing is.
Marketing is about learning how to get
And capture attention. So it’s sort of
A foundational piece for everyone.
And it’s actually the reason why I got into marketing,
Because I was like, if I’m going to develop a skill,
I might as well develop a skill that everyone needs
All the time, no matter what happens.
That’s what I chose that that field to go into.
You’re pretty wise about that.
Because you’re absolutely right. It doesn’t matter
If it’s the car driving down the street, or if it’s the furnace
That needs to go into the house, the book that sits
On our bookshelf, the food that sits on our refrigerator,
The hose that’s connected to our outside faucet,
Every one of those products needed to have
Some sort of marketing in order to catch
Your attention to be there. So for you to learn marketing,
You just gave yourself a chance
To work with every single product in the world.
That was actually my thought process.
When I was 13 or 14, I was learning.
I was buying candy and selling candy. I was like,
I could get really good at this. Or I could
Get really good at the thing that leads to the sales.
Getting the customers. I sort of been on marketing
Ever since. So that’s my love there. What I want
To talk about next, though, is your superpowers.
It’s what you do or build or offer this world
That helps solve problems for other people.
Things you use to slay this world’s villains, so to speak,
If you could narrow down your superpower
In your business, what would you say it is?
Honestly, people ask often, what’s the thing
That makes you most different. And I really say
That I’m really a very ordinary guy
But I believe in living an extraordinary life.
And even the word extraordinary, it’s got
Those first letters of extra, and I learned
That to live an extraordinary life, you’ve got to give extra,
You have to have a extra vision, extra passion,
Extra solid purpose. I don’t think that I have
Any superpowers. But what I do have
Is I have a deep belief in myself.
I have a deep belief in my ability to create
The life that I love. I have a deep belief in my ability
To take a goal of which I am passionate about
And turn it into the reality that I walk. So, I suppose
My superpower is just: I believe in me. And every time
That I start a new goal, the very first thing
I put on the top of every single goal list
Of all the steps. Step one: I can do this.
So, what what cracks me up about that
Is that you say, I’m not sure I have any superpowers
And you’ve walked across seven countries,
Pedaled 4000 miles across the US twice, run 100 mile race,
Run a multi-billion dollar company. There’s gotta be
Something that makes you different. And I like
That idea where you say, just realizing
That you have to put in that extra, you have
To put something more forward than what other people
Are doing. I like to tell my son on a regular basis,
That the difference between me and other people
Is that I’m willing to work them under the table.
That phrase comes from drinking. I can drink someone
That told me I can drink more alcohol than you
And you’ll pass out before I do. I told my son,
There’s no competition for a man
Who’s willing to do the work.To just go out there.
And make it happen. Because most people
Aren’t willing to do that. And I think that’s,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s where
You’re going through, you can’t just do the baseline,
You have to actually put in the extra effort. Put in
The extra work to build something bigger than yourself.
I think if people just remember back at any experience
In their life, where they really stood out and they excelled.
It’s because they probably did more
Than just the average ticket by. It could have been
A class in high school or college that you just love.
You love the professor, you love the knowledge,
And you just devoted so much to extra time.
And that’s why you got that A. It could be a project
That you love to work that you just knocked it
Out of the park because you loved it so much
That you put in the extra time, effort, passion.
I think that’s where we start to build exceptional lives
Is when we just don’t accept the mediocrity of existing.
But we accept the possibility of really living
The whispers in our heart. The whispers in our heart
And I’d love to create that. I would love to take my family
Are those whispers that say, “I’d love to do that.
And live in a new place across the country all the time.
And I would love that.” Those are the whispers
And when we truly start to believe we can
And we do extra. That’s when we live the whispers
In our heart. That’s when we live the extraordinary life.
I have a question about that. Because it’s something
That I’ve done over and over and over again, and
I like the way you’re you’re talking about it, is this idea
That you call them whispers.The things
That you want to do, the things that you want
To move your life forward. And my case, we’re traveling
Around the country. Something that happens to me
All the time now, because we’re traveling doing this
And people are like, “I wish I could live the life you’re living.”
And my response to that is generally, why don’t you?
What’s holding you back? Because the only difference
Between me and someone else is just that I made
A different decision. I just decided to do it
And do something a little extra about it. I see people
Who want to get into this particular lifestyle
And you see them thinking I’ve decided yesterday,
I want to go sell all my stuff move into RV
And travel the country with my family. So, we’re looking
At our visas now. And they’re like, “How did you do it?”
And I’m like, it started 10 years ago,
Before I was married in college. And it’d be cool is
To take this kind of trip and spent the next 10 years
Building a life and building a family and
Building a business that allowed me to do that.
And then we finally were able to. Everything’s were
Lined up to where we could make it happen.
But it was a little bit of progress over the course
Of a long time. That leads to being able to do
The things that you want to do. You have to do
A little extra all the time. To build the life
If we really understand that principle, that if we move
That you want.
An inch forward everyday, eventually we’ll move a mile.
That’s what it is when you have a big dream.
If you have a big goal. You can’t wish, pray,
And hope it will happen. That’s where the whole notion
Of the secret I think really started to misguide people
A little bit. If I wish hard enough, if I think hard enough
On this, I’m going to attract this goal or this dream
Or this miracle into my life. The real key in my mind,
To attracting the success and the vision
And the dream and the goal is when you’re willing
To put forth action every single day. Just move
An inch forward on your goal every day,
And eventually you will be in the RV,
And you will be living that life
That you had dreamed about.
I follow that same principle in my business too.
With my clients is like I have all of the projects
That we’re working on. And one of the things
I’ve realized is that in order to grow
All of my clients results for the work that I do,
One of the things that I set up is I want
To take a look at every client that we’ve got,
And see what progress we’re making on that
Client’s projects. And sometimes all we have to do
Is just check in and make sure that whatever
Happened today is supposed to happen.
They don’t have to be big changes. Sometimes, we’re just
Doing one little thing. We’re submitting a ticket here,
Or we’re doing a thing there. But whatever the thing is
For that client, we make a little bit of effort,
A little bit of motion forward. And we do that
Everyday with our clients. And they see big results
Over the course of time because of that.
Because there’s always just someone there
Making sure that there’s a little bit of progress
Everyday. And that little bit of progress,
It’s how you accomplish anything.
You know what, Richard, you really hit
On another excellent point. Oftentimes one of the keys
To achieving what we want to do
Is to have a built in accountability system.
It sounds like you are that for your clients.
That constantly checking in making sure
That they are on purpose. Making sure that they’re
Doing this, that they’re doing that. And I’m a big believer
That if you’ve got a dream, if you’ve got a goal,
If you got a belief in your heart that you really want
To live. You do not keep that silent, you do not keep
That to yourself, but you find your accountability partner,
Someone else who’s dreaming big
About what they want to do, and you share
With each other what it is, and then you hold each
Other accountable constantly, whether it’s daily,
Whether it’s three times a week, and you call up
And say, “Hey, Richard, let’s talk about it.
How’s it going? What did you do this week?
What were the action steps that you took
To get you where you want?” You apply accountability
To your goal and dream and bring someone else
That keeps you on track. You’ve just multiplied
Your chances of getting to where you want to go.
It’s one of the key aspects of making sure
Everything gets moved forward. In context
Of my business, one of the things that I set up
With all of my clients is we do a weekly
Accountability call, it’s like, “Here’s the things
That you needed to get to me, and here’s
The stuff that I promised we would get
To you this week.” We build that methodology
Into business growth, but the same thing happens
With my, I say, he’s my business partner but really,
We’re like running partners. He’s got his business,
I got my business, we talk every day. And working
On growing things that way. And we have the same thing
Going with my wife, and raising the kids
And how we’re doing those kind of stuff. And it’s a principle
That we apply over and over again, to move forward.
It’s a very powerful skill set to learn how
To a) know where you want to go,
And then b) consistently move the puck
Just a little bit every day.
You’re just right on with those principles. And that’s why
You are so successful, because life starts to kick
All of our butts. And if we didn’t have accountability
Built into our life like, “I just got this, email today,
Which was unexpected. And I wasn’t expecting
This bill. And this happened.
And this happened, and this happened.” The truth of it
Is that life will wear you down. Life will wear you down,
And it will start to drown your passion unless,
You are doing something to keep your passion
At the top of your list, to keep your goal
At the top of the list. And that’s what accountability does.
That’s what’s connecting having the family accountability
With you and your wife being great partners.
That’s what having the business partner that keeps
You accountable to staying on track because
Otherwise, life just shoots you with bows and arrows
All the time. And eventually you just go, “I got nothing
Left to give,” unless you’re reminded
Of what it is that you really want.
Just a fair warning for anyone who might think
They want to get in the RV, and travel like that.
And I assume it’s probably the same way if you said,
You travel a bunch of countries, the unexpected,
That stuff that gets in the way
And knocks you down happens all the time.
That’s a really beautiful point. Actually, that’s why
I do what I do. When I take these every eight months or so
When I walk across a country I’ve walked across,
What is it seven or eight countries now
In the last five years, when I say walk across,
Once I step in country I’ve got a 30 plus pound
Backpack on my shoulder, and I am walking
To that destination. And I call these my axe
Sharpening trips every single year. Because
When you don’t really know sometimes where
You’re staying at night, and you’re walking 15 to 20 miles
A day, up and down hills, you don’t know
What’s going to happen. You don’t know where
You’re going to eat. What’s in store for you.
That’s what keeps you on your toes.
That’s what keeps you alive. That’s what helps define
And refine your passion and your purpose. And I
Guarantee you that as I crossed France this last time,
When I got off the plane in Paris, initially it was 106
Degrees. And what was going through my head was
How in the world am I going to walk 15 plus miles
Everyday in a 106 degrees. And then later on,
I’m through the mountains of walking through
France, and I get caught in the worst rainstorms
I have ever been in. So, you’re out there
And you go, “How am I going to survive
This rainstorm, where I feel like I’m drowning
Out here.” I do these things on purpose,
Because what it does is it instills a competence
And a belief in myself that I can overcome.
Because isn’t that what happens on our goals
That we don’t get them is because all of a sudden,
They become too big, I can’t do that, that’s too hard.
We start making excuses of why we can’t achieve
What we want to achieve. But when you start to develop
An inner competence yourself that you can do it.
Who can stop you if you believe that.
That’s so true. Because one of the things my wife
Laughs at me. I have a habit of doing crazy things,
And then just making life happen afterwards.
We got married on a whim. We’ve been together
For 10 years now. And we moved our business
From Missouri to California on a whim. Had a big business,
Hundred thousand dollar year thing we got rid of
To changed our course, and at one point, decided
To move into an RV and travel the country. We did that
In twenty-eight days from start to living in an RV
And selling everything we own. I’ve got a habit of
I just want to do things and have them and just do them.
And the reason why we do that now, and why
It’s not a big problem to make big decisions
And do all that is because there’s a whole backlog
Of success of knowing that it doesn’t matter
What happens, we’ll figure it out. We can do this.
Because most people, when faced with a decision
To do something or not to do something are afraid
Of the unknown. They’re afraid of, I don’t know
What’s going to go on here, I’m going to have
How it’s going to work out. I don’t know
All my ducks in a row. And one of the things
That I realized early on, because my dad actually
Taught this to me was the if you wait till you’re ready
To do anything, you’ll never do anything, because
Getting ready happens as you’re experiencing the thing.
Because experience is really what makes you ready
For experiences. The whole point is that is the key
To growth is just learning to put yourself into situations
And take the risk. Take the risk and do the thing.
Because you’ll never know what you’re capable of
If you don’t ever face the struggles.
That’s right, if we wait for the stars
To fall into perfect alignment, before we start
Anything, we’re going to be at the starting line
For the rest of our life. That’s the bottom line.
You hit upon something, Richard, that’s so absolutely key.
It’s the it’s the it’s the four letter word that has devastated
More dreams and drowned more hopes than
Any four letter word ever out there. And it’s the word
Fear. F-E-A-R. If I had a gift, if I had a superpower gift,
My gift would be to be able to glance
Someone’s direction and get rid of all their fear.
Because if I could get rid of people’s fear, if I had
That ability, that person could live the greatest life
Ever. This is how I get past my fear. Because first off,
I want you to know that when I go into a foreign country,
And I step off that airplane with only my backpack,
I’m feeling so many butterflies. There’s like a butterfly parade
Going on in my gut. I’m feeling the anxiety, the nerves,
The tension, everything. I’m feeling fear. But the key
To overcoming fear everytime for me is
I make the adventure bigger than the fear.
I make the adventure bigger than the fear and when you
Can get to the point where you go, that sounds amazing.
When you get to that point, the fear takes a backseat.
And maybe the fear always tries to be a backseat driver.
But you’re behind the wheel now. The adventure,
If you’re behind the wheel of that RV no matter
People saying, “What happens if you break down
Out there? What happens if you can’t do this?
What are you going to do about this? Let people plant
Seeds of doubt all the time. Because when you know
Where you’re going, no one’s gonna stop you.
I like the the idea of making the adventure bigger
Than the fear. My internal version of that is stories.
I’m sort of obsessed with stories and the things
That I’m afraid of that I’m like, “I don’t know if I want to
Do that,” is the thing that gets me over the hump
To do the things is imagine I’m either going to get
A story out of it. Or I’m going to get what I imagined
I wanted out of it. They’re always good experiences
On the other side. Pain for lack of a better word,
Anything that you don’t particularly enjoy
Is always transient. It doesn’t stay, and we have
For whatever reason, it’s probably some sort of development
Or creation for our for ourselves. We don’t remember
Pain well. It’s why women are capable of having
More than one child because they don’t remember
The pain of childbirth. My wife let me have
Four kids with her. That’s just the way it goes.
Just in this last week we had our toilet blow up, and literally
A popped off of everything. That was always fun.
And we had an RV park we tried to get into
That their entrance was too small for our RV.
And they didn’t tell us until afterwards that we were
Supposed to come into their exit because of our size.
And we smashed like the back left part of our RV
Trying to go up their hill. Had to fix a whole bunch
Of things and a lot of that is they’re just part
Of the adventure. It’s part of part of the adventure
And at the other side of it, where you end up with is
You end up with with stories. In the midst of it,
You’re like, “I can’t believe we broke down the side
Of the road or broke our thing or our toilet blew up.”
But on the other side, you get stories. You get things
To share with people. Experiences that other people
Don’t have. Your other option is to not do it.
And what is it Mark Twain says you know, 20 years
From now you’re going to regret the things
You didn’t do more than the ones you did. So, do it.
I’m a big believer, in no regret living and oftentimes,
That’s how I measure whether or not I’m going
To do something or not do something I imagine
If I’m sitting in the rocking chair, I call it my rocking chair test.
I’m sitting on the front porch, and I’m an old dude.
And I’m rocking back and forth. And I’m looking
At the scrapbook of my life. And I’m looking
At all the pictures of everything that I did then
I just never want to see pictures of things that I wish
I would have done and it’s no regret living. I don’t have
Any regrets for things that I tried and didn’t succeed doing.
I have no regrets because I went for it. I gave it my best.
But the things that I didn’t try, that’s where
The regrets fall. And sometimes I know what I’m afraid of.
And so that’s why I take those dudes on, straight on.
For example, the height is not my favorite thing.
I was in Auckland, New Zealand, a few years back,
And there’s something called the Sky Tower jump
In Auckland, where it’s this building
Where you bungee jump off at 630 feet. And I waited
Till the very end of the day where the elevator
To go up was the last call going up. I finally just pushed
Myself in that elevator and I went up by myself.
Nobody else was up there. And so I got up to the top
Of the building. And I’m greeted by two dudes
That are about to put me in my orange jumpsuit
And strap me on because I’m about to jump off
That building. Nobody else is up there because it’s the last
Of the jumps. The rest of the crowd that has jumped
Has already done it or walked down. So I have no
Reinforcement from crowd or no one else high-fiving me
And saying okay, you can do this, buddy, you got this.
I’ve just got these two guys. And so, there’s a plank,
Off the building. It looks like a pirates plank on a ship,
The kind in the olden days where you got
To walk the plank. I’m all strapped in
With my bungee gear. I start to walk that plank,
I look over I go, oh my god, I looked down
And the cars were so small, I turned around so fast.
And the guys looked at me and they saw
That there was such extraordinary fear.
And they didn’t even want to bother talking me into it.
They just said, “Not everybody can do it.”
Immediately in my head. I go, “No,
Because I will regret this the rest of my life.”
At that point, I did a quick little mental trick.
I walked off the plank backwards. I heard myself
Saying, “Wait, what do you do? What do you do?
What are you doing?” So I couldn’t see anything.
Then the next thing I know is I’m falling down this thing,
Just being crazy. And as I’m popping back and forth,
Up and down in the middle of the air. I’m going,
“This is one of the greatest things I’ve ever done.”
But sometimes you’ve got to realize
When you’re at that point in life where you might
Regret not doing this, you just gotta jump. You gotta jump.
That has pretty much been my life experience.
Everything from getting married to having kids
To starting businesses to moving halfway across
The country to sell everything you own to move
Into an RV, just over and over again. If I don’t do it,
I’ll regret it later. So, might as well do it
And see what happens. And that is my, I think cliff diving
And bungee jumping and jumping out of airplanes
Are. It’s one of the best metaphors for those kind
Of decisions. Four weeks ago, my family and I
Were up in Yosemite, a little place called Rainbow Pool.
And they have a waterfall there that is maybe 35-40 feet
Tall. And it’s been scooped out with a water so it’s
U shaped. And you can sit on it. And the water
Will just shoot you right off the waterfall into a pool
Below that’s 40 feet deep. And you can climb
Back up and do it again. Walking my kids through
That experience of do you want to go off of this
And walking through that mental exercise of it’s scary.
And I want to do it but fear is holding me back.
How do you overcome that fear. And doing those
Things. And I even got my five year old to go
Off of the waterfall and my nine year old boy,
There’s another cliff, that’s another 10 feet higher
That you can jump off of and took him up there
And coasting through it a little bit. It’s like, “We’re going
To go stand on the edge of the cliff. And what
You want to do and you get the edge cliff is just
Walk right to the side and then don’t even think
About it. Just stand up and jump off. Because
If you let yourself think about it, you’ll freak yourself out.
You just have to take the leap, so to speak,
Because you can swim, you watched all
The other people do it. You’re going to be fine.
Just walking through that mental exercise
Of just taking the leap, of doing something
And both my kids, now, we talked to them
About what their favorite part of the trip so far
In the last two years has been. They’re both,
“It’s jumping off the waterfall.” And they
Would have regretted not doing it.
It’s an important thing to learn how to do.
Now, they have those experiences to rely upon.
Because once we really push past fear and stretch
Our comfort zone out there and we didn’t die.
And we survived and maybe we survive brilliantly.
It gives us power to move forward. Tony Robbins
Knew this a long time ago when he started doing
His seminars and doing the firewalks because who thinks
That you can walk across hot coals barefooted.
But at Tony’s events he set it up so that you’re walking
Across these hot coals barefooted. And it’s really
Just a metaphor, but what other things in your life
Do you think that you cannot do
Because you’re convinced you cannot do,
But you really could do. So once we start stretching
Our comfort zone just a little bit further. It does
Give us confidence because we can remember,
I can do that. And I didn’t die. And maybe
Someone’s saying right now they’re listening.
I did try and I failed. And the failure was so hurtful
And the rejection and the feedback that I got
People saying, “Why did you do that in the first place?”
That’s why I’m not going to move forward again.
That’s why I’m not going to do that. We could
Let that drown us forever. We could let that keep us
Inside that comfort zone. But is that even really living?
Is that really even living? I remember the very first time
I pedaled a bike across the country. When you’re
Pedaling a bike through the very small towns across
The Midwest, I came across on some of those
Country roads, a lot of very old cemeteries that
I would park my bike there and some
Of these cemeteries were sold the hanging sign,
The entrance sign below was hanging on the ground.
You walk through that and some of those people
Had been buried there for hundreds of years
Because the tombstone was completely unreadable.
The weather and the rain and everything
Had washed them away. And I remember standing
In front of some of those, and I just would wonder,
The person here, did they live the life they wanted
To live? Did they chase their dreams? Did they go
For their goals? Did they have a good life?
I really think those things because someday
That’s you, and someday, that’s me.
And when we realize that life is short,
And that we are not here forever, and that we don’t
Have the opportunity to do these things forever,
Of jumping off the tallest building in Auckland,
Of driving an RV across the country with our family,
Of walking across the country. If we don’t do these now,
Eventually, there will be no now. And to me,
That’s the great motivator is always knowing
That this is my time because someday
It’s no longer my time.
You just have to look at. It filters everything in your life.
Whether or not you have any interest in jumping off
Of a building or driving your RV around the country.
It could be as simple as I want to write the book
Or I want to take girl out or I want to have a kid.
Whatever the things are in your life, you have
You’re not gonna have a chance.
To just do them because if you wait,
Because Richard Matthews’ dreams aren’t
Maybe a listener’s dreams. Sean Anderson’s dreams
Aren’t a listener’s dreams. But yet you as a listener,
Someone who’s listening in today, you have
Your own dreams, you have whispers in your heart
Of what you want to do. And maybe it is
Writing that book or writing the song or sending
Your manuscript out to somebody or maybe
It’s just a hobby that you want to do. Or maybe
You’ve always regretted not finishing your college degree.
Or maybe you think that you might be too old
To go back and take a college course,
And whatever your thing might be, go do your thing.
I want to move on just a little bit
And talk about the other side of a superpower
Which is the fatal flaw. Superman had his kryptonite.
Batman is not actually a superhero. If you had to look
At your own life and say, “There’s this one thing
That’s been…I’ve regularly had to fight with
Or deal with too, that’s held me back.”
What would you say that is? And more importantly,
How have you worked to overcome that
For other people who might suffer from something similar?
Honestly, I don’t know how to answer that question.
I’m a big believer in self-awareness. And I’m a big believer
In knowing what might hold you back and working hard
So that that area doesn’t hold you back. And as I continue
To get older, I’m 50 I guess, what am I 56 now,
I realized how imperfect I am. And, and I realize
We all are.
It’s just the self-awareness. I have 100 flaws, Richard.
I have 100 flaws, but every one of them is a little less
Of a flaw than it was yesterday. And then tomorrow,
I’m going to recognize a new flaw that I didn’t see before,
Because it’s all about evolving, and it’s all about growing.
And I don’t think any of us will ever get to the point
Where we master life. Let’s just pray to God
That none of us are ever stuck in kindergarten forever.
I’ve got 100 flaws and every single day, it’s a day
To start over. My favorite day of the week
Is always today. It’s because today’s always a do-over.
Today gives me a chance to do-over everything
That I did to do successfully yesterday. And it’s taking
The time every morning and giving myself a new start,
A new slate try to be the best that I can be.
It doesn’t matter what my flaws are.
I can always just keep trying to understand
And keep making sure that that flaw
Doesn’t really hold me back.
There’s like two schools of thought
On being with flaws that I have seen crop up.
One of them is that if you have a flaw in an area
Or a struggle in an area that you ignore it
And outsource it to someone else. Just don’t
Worry about that. focus only on your strengths.
Because that’s where you can have the biggest impact
Is in the areas where you’re strong. And the other side
Of that is if you have something that is a weakness,
It’s probably holding you back. And if you can make
It just a little bit better. It can help unlock your strengths.
If you will, you can take a few of the areas
That you have flaws in and improve them
A little bit. It’ll help unlock your strengths to be able
To have more work that way. Which side of that
Do you fall on?
Let me give you specific examples. Let’s say
That discipline, that a lack of discipline could be
Determined as a flaw. I’ve been able to develop
A system that helps deal with maybe a lack
Of discipline or understanding that that flaw exists
In me. What I’ve done is I’ve really learned to program
My day, almost hour by hour that this is
What I’m supposed to do. It’s really a lesson
That I learned as I go back to elementary school.
Most every kid gets through elementary school because
We’ve got this subject and we’ve got mother, father,
Teacher, making sure that we’re showing up to school,
We’re doing our homework, we’re getting through.
I really went back to that mother dad teacher accountability,
That MDT accountability system and applied it
To my own life now. So, hour by hour, there’s so much
Structure in my day that I eliminate the flaw of maybe
Not having the discipline.
Do you know what I mean?
I love the the idea to have structure in your day,
To some people can feel like you’re making yourself
Restricted. But one of the things that I’ve realized
Is when you structure your day, it gives you
More freedom, because you are able to be space.
Because you have, this is my family time. And it’s set
Then you you can turn everything else off
Because it’s scheduled, it’s all taken care of.
You can dedicate yourself to whatever
Aside on the calendar that this is for my family,
That’s on the calendar at the time being
Because you know, everything has its place.
That’s right. I’m also a big believer that control
The morning control the day. I believe that the most
Important time of a person’s day to really be dedicated
To your schedule, and your discipline is the morning
Because that starts feeding everything that happens
The rest of day, if you can find success and confidence
By what you do in the morning, you become stronger
Throughout the day. If you find yourself failing
And not following through with things early in the morning,
Then you’re chasing your tail all day. And nowhere does
This become more real than when I’m walking
Across the country. My goal is always to do 10 by 10.
I want to get 10 miles walk by 10am because then
It just takes this huge pressure off me. It takes a huge pressure
Because if I’m scrambling, and it’s one o’clock
In the afternoon, the sun’s going to come out
And get hotter, and I haven’t done it. I start to feel
More anxiety, I’m starting to scramble more.
Everything feels messy. It’s getting things done early,
Which sets the tone for the rest of the day.
Control the morning control the day.
We actually do something similar with our travels.
We generally don’t drive more than two or three hours
Whenever we move. And we’ll generally, on move days,
We’ll get up early, and get everything ready to go
And move. If we are out by eight o’clock we’ll
Generally be wherever we’re at by 10 or 11. And if you
Move into a new spot by 10 or 11 o’clock,
You’ve got the whole day. Your day
Hasn’t even started yet. And you’re already
In a new spot and you got places to explore
And find the grocery store and whatever it is
That you need to do. Because you’ve already
Accomplished the big thing you need
To do accomplished by early in the morning.
It just applies everywhere. If you get your business
Stuff done early in the morning, you have the afternoon
To do more fun things. To be creative. To go explore,
Do whatever it is that you want to do.
It’s the concept of this whole flex time, I believe
That we need to build flex time into our schedule
Because then if things didn’t quite go as you had
Planned in the morning, but yet you had started early,
You now have flex time to continue
To where you need to get by 10 o’clock, let’s say
To work on it later. For example, you want to get
That you have a flat tire but you started early.
You have the rest of the day. There is flex time
Built into your schedule that you could still do that.
On the other hand, if you had not started to 1pm
And you got that flat tire at 4pm all of a sudden,
Then it’s getting dark and things happen and you’re
Creating more anxiety and more pressure on yourself
Because your family’s out there and kind of in
An urgent situation. Flex times an important thing
And the more flex time we build into our schedule;
The healthier our attitudes, the healthier
Our mindsets, that healthier our life.
I have had those experiences, not flat tire,
But we’ve blown out radiators and alternators
And batteries and other things on the road.
And if you’ve got the flex time, it’s easy
To just keep moving on. I got time, we got there.
Still get there on time. Sometimes a little later
At night or during the day, but still you got
What you needed to accomplish done that day.
In our case in this context is traveling, it’s got to get
To the new destination. Generally, I get there by sunset
But if we’ve got all afternoon is free to do that thing.
You have a lot of flex time to make sure it happens, which is really useful.
And now, back to the show.
I’m actually going to skip a couple of my normal questions
Because we have covered them very well
In our discussion. Talk a little bit about
Your own personal heroes. Luke had Obi Wan.
Robert Kiyosaki, his rich dad. Who are your heroes?
Were they mentors, speakers, or authors, peers
Who are just few years ahead of you? And how important
Were they to what you’ve accomplished
So far in your business?
I’ve never met any of my heroes. And sometimes
I think that heroes certainly can be people
That we’ve either met or we haven’t met. As a writer,
One of my heroes or one of my role models was
A gentleman by the name of Og Mandino. And Og Mandino
Had written a book, “The Greatest Miracle in the World.”
It was a success principle book, fictional inspiration
That in his style of writing, and believing that you could
Motivate people and inspire people, not by giving them
A list of 10 things you need to do to be a millionaire
Or 10 things you need to do to get your book published
Or 10 things you need to do to kick ass in the world.
He wrote it in the sense of a story and he let the readers
Pick and choose what it is that they wanted to get
Out of that story. That made such a mark on me
That that’s now how I do my writing. It’s not the 10 habits
Of highly successful people and what you do,
But it’s motivating people and inspiring people
Through fictional stories. Og Mandino was one.
The second one was a guy that you might have heard
Of by the name of Benjamin Franklin. And Benjamin Franklin
Had a book called, “The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin.”
And in that he had identified qualities, virtues
That he wanted to live by and these things
That he wanted in his life. He created an accountability
Plan to focus on these qualities, each month
So that he developed that quality. It was that sort
Of personal accountability, structure, and plan
That made such an impression on me when I was younger.
That accountability, personal accountability, written
Personal accountability, journal-like personal accountability
Daily became super important. And I think that’s why
I was able to reach some of the goals that I was able
To reach financially maybe at a young age
And some of the other things I’ve been able to do
Because I understood that superstar, supernova lessons
From Benjamin Franklin.
The interesting thing I find about Og Mandino,
The story based stuff like fiction and telling stories
Is that I tell people all the time that we’re a story born people.
That’s the reason why this show exists we can share
Each other’s stories and we connect more.
And we are more impacted by stories than any other form
Of communication. You mentioned 10 things those are lists
Of how to information .On how you get something done.
I always refer to that kind of stuff as nail data.
It’s data without a without a hammer. It’s a nail
Without a hammer and your stories are the hammers.
Stories that will let you do things with the data.
To drive the nail home, so to speak. And it’s such
An important thing to learn how to both
Interact with stories and tell stories because it’s pretty
Much your whole life revolves around it.
It’s how you raise kids, and how you decide
Which movie you’re going to go see with your friends
And how you do marketing, and how you consume stories.
It’s cornerstone to the human experience.
I certainly found that that is what worked for me.
When I was younger, and I’m talking, out of college,
I read every self-help book I possibly could.
Whether it was, I think it was named John Malloy
Dress for Success, or Stephen Covey’s 10 Habits
Of Highly Successful People. And I just started to feel
What resonated with me, what resonated with me.
And then there was a speaker that all of us
That had been immersed in self-help are very familiar
By the name of Zig Ziglar. Zig had a famous story,
I think, Biscuits, Fleas and Pump Handles,
And he was giving these principles that were associated
With each of these stories about his mama
Making biscuits, and then being a fleet trainer
And trying to pump water. And it stuck with me
So much that I can still remember it to this day.
And I think that if we can entertain people or find
That sense of entertainment that says,
“I’m going to listen to you because you sound interesting.
I’m gonna listen to you.” Then maybe the lessons
That we’re trying to share, the lessons
That have empowered us, maybe then
They might reach that other person a little bit better.
And all the way down to one of the things
That I have noticed happens with entrepreneurs is
We get ourselves immersed in the only type of books
I can read are self-help books. I can’t read fiction,
Because fiction doesn’t actually help me. And I realized
That sometimes that’s a flaw in thinking because it’s
The storytelling when you read a book from a good author,
There’s so much more than just the story
That you can get from that. Your brain will start picking up
On how they’re doing. How they’re telling stories,
And how they’re building characters and how the decisions
Those characters are making are impacting them,
You’ll pick up on all those patterns. And it makes you
A better storyteller, it makes you a better listener,
Makes you a better marketer, makes you
A better person. Just stories in general are really
Important part of growth, especially as an entrepreneur.
A side note to what you said there too.
I think the successful life is the life
That has found balance. I think the person
That just wants to read the self-help books
All the time. Because I was that person. My life
Might have been lacking some of the real joy
At that time, or finding inspiration from other ways,
Because I was so darn focused on making
My first million dollars that I learned to open up
And have different experiences and appreciate things.
I love Dan Brown. I love The Da Vinci Code, I love
His book, Angels and Demons. I love Digital Fortress.
I love Origin, and Inferno. We have to find
Those moments of escape, just to give our brain
A timeout. There’s eight hours a night that we give
Our body a timeout and take a nap. I think also
To find our ultimate success, we have
To find time to give our brain a timeout.
So they kicked me off for a second.
There you are.
Hopefully, we can we can redo that. You were saying,
We can find time for your brain.
We need to create timeout so that we’re just
Not stress-filled, anxiety-rich human beings
That are just so unappealing to hang out with,
Because all we want is that goal. I got it my business.
It’s about my business. We don’t want to be
That person either.
To bring this back full circle, talking about being
The kind of person that actually goes out
And does the thing that takes the risks
And doesn’t have the regrets. Having
A no regret life makes you a type of person
That’s interesting to sit down and talk to.
Because you’re not just focused on one thing,
And you don’t have this one set of experiences.
You’ve done more than most people.
When you say yes, more often than you say no
To the things that you want to do, and allows you
To connect at a greater level with more people
Because of the experiences you have.
I absolutely believe that. I think that
When you live rich, leave. And I mean that
In terms of adventures and experiences.
When you live richly I think that you become more
Of a magnet of people wanting to be drawn to you.
Because I think the people that I’m drawn to
That have lived richly, they feed me.Their experiences
Help me. They plant seeds in me, or they help
Water seeds in me. And that’s why I do my best
To surround my people who have lived richly,
Because they opened my eyes
To how much more richly I might be able to live.
When you have those people in your life,
They help push you to say yes more often to
Because when you see them doing it,
It’s almost like that invisible accountability partner,
When you have peers that are are doing things
And and saying yes. It’s almost like giving
You permission to do the same thing.
When you hang out with people who don’t mind
Stepping across their comfort zone line,
You’re more apt to want to follow them than
If you just hang out with people who are constantly
Just watching Vanna White and Pat Sajak,
Buying imaginary bows, watching a game show
At night time. What do you what kind of person
Do you want to be? Do you want to be one
That was content and lived under your couch
And looked at pictures and books? Or do you want to go
Be the person who takes pictures and books
And is enjoying cool experiences around the world?
I’ve always had the same feeling. Why watch
Someone else play sports, when you can
Go play to sport yourself? That kind of mentality
To take in life. Taking life by the horns, so to speak.
Last thing I want to sort of bring home for our listeners,
What are the top one or two principles or actions
That you do sort of every day that you think
Contribute to the success and influence
You enjoying your business, right now?
I go the extra mile in three ways every single day.
I go the extra mile for my health. I go the extra mile
For one other person, and I go the extra mile
For my purpose. Every single day, I find a way
To go the extra mile in each one of those ways.
Give me some examples for health.
What does it mean to go the extra mile
For your health?
For example, it’s just making sure to take the time
And later today, I’m not going to go on
A 20-minute walk I’m going to make sure
That I made the time and I’m going to go out
For a 90 minute walk that’s creating Extra Mile time
In my schedule to go do that. For your purpose
It’s perhaps going the extra mile and contacting
Three people who might be able to help promote
A book, going the extra mile for someone else.
Taking a moment and sending an email to someone
Saying, Richard, love your show. You are amazing
And awesome. You stay with it, you keep going.
Someday you’re going to have 500,000 listeners,
If you keep following your track, it’s going
The extra mile for someone else and showing belief
And confidence and encouragement in them.
So everyday, go the extra mile in those three areas
And watch what happens to your life. Watch
To your own purpose. Watch what happens to your vitality.
What happens to your energy. Watch what happens
I have had people in the past tell me that,
You seem like you have magical powers almost.
Because you’ve accomplished so much, by your age.
That what you just said that’s the magical power.
The magical power is just doing a little bit everyday
In a few key areas. I think most people drastically
Overestimate what they can accomplish in a year.
And drastically underestimate what happens
Over the course of 10 years if you make a little bit
Of progress every day. Because it starts to snowball.
The farther you get into making a little bit
Of progress everyday.
If you just throw something into the universe
Everyday. Imagine it’s an imaginary paper airplane,
Throw that paper airplane in the universe
And just say, “I wonder if I do this, what happens?”
Sometimes all of a sudden, something comes
Back to you, that’s pretty darn cool.
That basically brings us to the end of our interview,
I have a couple small little things we do here
At the end of the show. One of them’s called
The Hero Challenge. Hero Challenge is pretty easy.
And it’s basically this, you have someone in your life
Or in your network that you think has
A cool entrepreneurial journey. Who are they?
First names are fine, and why do you think
They should come and share their story
With our guests on the Hero Show?
I think that the people that listen to you
Are pretty darn lucky because they’ve got a guy
That’s living a crazy dream-filled life
That’s found a way to support him financially
And who rides around the country in a motorhome?
I think there’s a good one right there.
His name by the way is Richard Matthews.
Thanks. Do you actually have someone you think
We should invite on the show or not?
A few years ago, the very first time I pedaled
A bike across the country, it was called
The Extra Mile America tour. And the Extra Mile America
Tour was taking at that time my non-bicycles body
4800 miles across the country. But the real power
Of the tool was I interviewed over 300 people
Who had been identified as going the extra mile
These people who had phenomenal stories
Of doing great things. I met so many awesome people.
And I’ll tell you about one of them in Colorado,
Actually was a husband and wife. Their name
Is Brad and Libby Birky. And Brad and Libby started
A restaurant in Colorado called the SAME cafe. S-A-M-E
And it stands for: So All May Eat. People say,
How can someone who opens at a restaurant be a hero?
There’s restaurant owners everywhere. Brad and Libby
Decided to do something pretty different. You go
Into the SAME cafe and you look at the menu
And there’s no prices. At the end of the meal.
You do not get a bill, you pay what you can pay.
And I guess Brad and Libby, now, have had
This restaurant for fiddlesticks, it’s probably been
12 or 15 years. And they built this this whole idea
That people should be able to have delicious
Healthy meals and if you can’t afford it, you can
Come in and you can pick up a broom and you can
Sweep or you can do dishes and you can find a way
To work for your meal. And their concept
Has been so phenomenal that now there’s been
Little restaurants across the country that have followed
That same principle of the SAME cafe
To me those are real awesome Extra Mile heroes.
I would be really fascinated to talk to someone
Like that. Last thing I want to do is first, thank you
For coming on the show really appreciate it.
And where can people find you if they want
To either hear more from you or they want
To hire you to come speak on a stage. I know you said
At this point you’re pretty choosy about who you take
On what kind of things you take on. But who would be
The ideal odds for you to do and who should reach
When they find you?
People can find me at https://www.shawnanderson.com/
If you’ve just been tempted at all with anything that I said,
That you want to learn more I put out a newsletter
On Thursdays it’s called Inspiration Thursday.
I think I’ve now written today. Today was Thursday,
I think number 390th issue in a row went out
And it’s just something really easy. Sometimes it’s stories,
Sometimes it’s slight little life lessons
Of what I’ve picked up that are going
To push or pull you up your own mountain.
Inspiration Thursday go to https://www.shawnanderson.com/
Sign up for it, if you’ve liked anything today that I’ve said.
So https://www.shawnanderson.com/ if you want
To pick that up and go take a look at his
Inspiration Thursday’s. Shawn, thank you so much
For coming on the show, really appreciate having
You here. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you
And hearing about your story. I know we didn’t get
Even get into some of the stuff that you’ve you’ve done.
You’ve done all sorts of crazy things from walking
Across countries to biking across countries
And building big businesses so I look forward
To connecting with you again in the future
And thank you for coming on the show.
It would be my privilege again to talk to you
Sometime, Richard. I think people that live
Their dreams like you who just live these crazy
Awesome lives, and live what they want.
You’re an inspiration to all of us. You’re an inspiration
For anybody that thinks that I can’t is bigger
Than I can. You are the I can man.
Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Sounds like you
Have the same kind of mentality in your life.
And it sounds like we are we’re cut from the same cloth
So to speak. So again, thank you
For coming on the show.
Really appreciate having you here today.
How To Build Incredibly Persuasive Webinars To Sell Your Online Courses or Coaching
Pick your copy of my new masterclass today and learn the EXACT strategies that I personally use to build sales webinars that have sold more than $786,976 worth of online courses and coaching just in the last year.
How To Build Incredibly Persuasive Webinars To Sell Your Online Courses or Coaching
Pick your copy of my new masterclass today and learn the EXACT strategies that I personally use to build sales webinars that have sold more than $786,976 worth of online courses and coaching just in the last year.
What Is The Hero Show?
A peak behind the masks of modern day super heroes. What makes them tick? What are their super powers? Their worst enemies? What's their kryptonite? And who are their personal heroes? Find out by listening now
The HERO Show
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