Episode 022 – Jonny Cooper

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Richard Matthews

Hello, and welcome back to the show.

 

My name is Richard Matthews, obviously and I’m here with Jonny Cooper.

 

Jonny Are you there?

 

Jonny Cooper  

I am indeed how wonderful. You’re in another continent, aren’t you?

 

Richard Matthews  

I am in Southern California right now.

 

I think the last episode I recorded here we were in New Mexico.

 

Oh no, not New Mexico. Where were we? We were in Arizona.

 

So anyways, we travel a lot.

 

We’re in a new place every couple of weeks or so.

 

And you’re in? You’re in Britain, right?

 

Jonny Cooper  

I am in overcast gray, the Midlands of Britain and I’m in here.

 

Not like California, man, it’s not something…

 

Richard Matthews  

Oh, no, but… it has in the last couple of days …

 

has been cold here. So you know, cold and cloudy,

 

but it’s warm and beautiful today, so it’s good.

 

So let me let me introduce you really quick

 

so people know who you are. And then we’ll we’ll dive into this stuff.

 

So Jonny, you’re – from your bio here –

 

British entrepreneur, piano player, international racing driver, which is super cool.

 

Let’s talk about that a little bit. business coach,

 

and you grew your first business to eight figures and exited it

 

and founded JonnyHatesMarketing.com,

 

which I think is a fantastic name.

 

Helping coaches, trainers, therapists find more of their ideal clients more easily.

 

You’re also the voice behind Legendary Jonny Hates Marketing Facebook Group

 

and swears that you really do in fact, hate marketing.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Spot on. All those things.

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s the Wonderful. So let’s talk a little bit about where you are today

 

and what Jonny is known for. So we talk all the time on our show

 

that heroes are sort of known for something.

 

So what is it that you’re known for?

 

What have people come to Jonny for help with?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, right now people are coming to me in droves,

 

coaches and therapists,

 

specifically to so that I can help them find more of their

 

ideal clients more easily without paid advertising.

 

So that’s my bag. It’s about organic, conversation-based marketing

 

for high ticket programs for coaches and therapists.

 

Richard Matthews  

Conversation-based marketing, what does …

 

what do you mean by conversation-based marketing?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Well, it’s the opposite of spray and pray, as we call it,

 

it is the opposite of appealing to a wide audience through advertising,

 

for example. It’s the opposite of believing that you need to be viral on social media,

 

you need a massive audience and a massive reach

 

its a basic concept that if you set out your soul,

 

and demonstrate clearly what it is you do and who it is for.

 

So you know, two of my three pillars of effortless marketing,

 

what you actually do, and who it is for

 

many, many coaches, and therapists are at a point where

 

they haven’t really worked that out yet.

 

They can’t express it clearly, we should be very clear about that,

 

then you will attract people, you can corral people together in a

 

in a Facebook group, for example, or on your LinkedIn network.

 

And what you can then do is just identify people who look like your next ideal client,

 

and just literally tap on the shoulder and say,

 

Hey, I found your comment, interesting,

 

I enjoyed reading your post or something like that.

 

Why don’t we just jump on a call sometime soon

 

and see if I can share any insights that might help.

 

And you can resume a call that you and I are now except not a podcast.

 

And that’s where the magic happens. You know, in a conversation,

 

where you can establish common ground,

 

you can either demonstrate to your potential client

 

that you really deeply care about them.

 

You care about the outcomes on the, you know,

 

completely locked into creating an impact on their life and their business.

 

And you just simply make an offer to help them and work with them.

 

Doesn’t feel like a sales process then which really speaks to you know,

 

my audience of coaches and therapists, because many of them hate selling,

 

you know, they hate the idea of being salespeople.

 

Yeah, they just want to help you. So I would…

 

Richard Matthews  

say it’s an interesting way to approach it, because it’s still a sales process,

 

and they still are selling, but it’s an authentic way to sell.

 

And, you know, I found that once you sort of really understand what selling is,

 

that’s the heart of selling, finding someone who has a problem

 

and finding a way to help them.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Exactly. Have you been reading Seth Godin by any chance?

 

Richard Matthews  

I haven’t.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Actually, he agrees with you,

 

which I think you should take as a compliment because

 

it is in his latest masterpiece called This Is Marketing.

 

His definition of marketing is the generous act of helping someone solve the problem.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, that is exactly what we talk about all the time.

 

That sales and marketing is really about serving a market

 

help them solve a problem, help them move forward and have a better life.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, so where I come from, I want to show people who their market is,

 

you know, identify a client avatar. And then understand,

 

along with that, your own superpower, you know,

 

what you can bring on a massive transformational benefit

 

that you bring to the world, and specifically to that point.

 

And then as you say, Richard, you know,

 

you can then simply solve the problem for them,

 

and they’ll love you forever.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, that’s one of the things that I talk about in my

 

digital alchemy program it is learning how to find what it is

 

that you are good at… what it is that you…

 

how you can help someone transform their lives and everything.

 

So it’s a powerful process. And I think more people need to,

 

they need that message for growing their businesses,

 

figuring out what their difference is and learn how to communicate that difference.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, really. Yeah.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah. So it’s really good. So what I want to talk a little bit about is your origin story, right?

 

So every hero has one. And this is when you start to realize that you were different

 

that maybe you had superpowers,

 

and you could use them to help other people.

 

So take us back to the beginning a little bit of

 

how you sort of got into this entrepreneur journey.

 

I know just from your initial introduction,

 

you have a lot of a lot of things going on over your life story.

 

Jonny Cooper  

The last few decades. Yeah, I think when I first realized I was different

 

was when I realized I didn’t want a job.

 

I didn’t actually want to have a job. I’ve never been employed.

 

But I’ve never never had a job, I picked a paycheck.

 

I had a pay slip. In my 20s I find that was relatively capable as a musician,

 

because I’ve been playing piano since I was eight years old.

 

And I managed to pick up some gigs.

 

So that kind of sustained me through my 20s you know,

 

I was a professional musician.

 

Now, I’m just a life-long musician who plays for passion and enjoyment.

 

You know, I didn’t make a ton of money doing it.

 

It’s quite entrepreneurial. You know, looking back on that,

 

I never used that word about it. But you know, hustling for gigs.

 

And you know, positioning with an agent and making the agent believe

 

that you’re worth putting out into his world, you know,

 

that there’s an art to it. And I knew at the time I didn’t really know what I was doing,

 

I was a bit better at that than some of the other bands that were out there

 

that weren’t getting the work we were,

 

I mean, this kind of work is, you know, copyrighted work, you know,

 

not pop star type musician, but, you know, working on cruise ships,

 

we had some great trips out in the Caribbean and all the rest of it,

 

and got paid for it, which is just wonderful.

 

Yeah, the top hotels in London and that kind of wedding circuit

 

I’m sure you know, the thing that goes,

 

there’s lots of bands in South Cal doing that kind of thing.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah.

 

Jonny Cooper  

But you know, it’s not particularly lucrative.

 

It sustains you at a certain level, particularly in your 20s.

 

And you’re prepared to sleep on someone’s couch and all the rest of it.

 

But this time I got into my 30s on, I met my first wife, we got married,

 

it was clear I had to be doing something more substantial.

 

And I just fell in with a guy and we set up a business around selling home improvements,

 

Kitchen Remodeling, as you call it in the States, fitted kitchens.

 

And that sustained me for a while and I kind of grew out of that

 

and got into financial services. As I got into my 40s.

 

And we, myself on another chap, we started a business,

 

advising people on pensions and investments and insurance.

 

So you know, kind of brokerage, the common mistakes.

 

And we really decided to go big on that, you know, we saw an opportunity,

 

a marketing lead opportunity. And we were pretty good at promoting the business.

 

Anyway, we grew over seven years to the eight figure level that you alluded to earlier.

 

So we only sold it in 2003. We had 200 Staff with eight offices around the UK.

 

10 million turnover or 10.2 million I think we did in 2003. And we only sold it.

 

So that was kind of the end of that of that era,

 

that kind of entrepreneurship for me.

 

And what I learned from that was number one that I didn’t like financial services,

 

particularly not often business by any means and heavily regulated

 

and all that kind of thing. So yeah, I’ve kind of two imperatives, you know,

 

you have to keep the business growing. But you also had to do it within

 

a very tight framework of what you couldn’t do and couldn’t say every day now.

 

Yeah. So for a kind of freedom chaser like me,

 

it was not an appealing industry. The other thing I learned was,

 

I don’t want to employ that many people again. You know.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah.

 

Jonny Cooper  

The burden of responsibility, when you should care about people basically,

 

which I like to think the idea of having 200 people and their families,

 

depending on you, it just got a little bit much.

 

And it came into focus, actually, when we had one of our annual events,

 

and everybody descended on one place.

 

And I was just looking out the window into the car park.

 

And I said to my business partner, you know, we were paying for all those cars.

 

It was like 50, or 60 cars, I guess. And we’re paying all the mortgages

 

for the people who drive them here. And it just came to us “oooh… you know,

 

maybe time for a reset.”

 

which is, you know, we took the offer to sell.

 

And since then I just kind of fell into business consulting.

 

So that’s kind of 15 years ago.

 

So for a decade and a half, I’ve just been a kind of

 

ragbag of a business consultant, business coach, you know,

 

kind of helping anybody who appeared like they wanted help.

 

Yeah, all this is kind of empty. The stuff that I do now is the opposite of it.

 

And I just by 2015, I was overwhelmed by too many clients

 

That’s a classic. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

 

that were paying too little money and demanding to too much time.

 

That we all you know, I think the only way you can truly learn that kind of stuff

 

is to try it yourself and experiencing yourself because, yeah,

 

Richard Matthews  

sometimes you just have to go through the mud.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah go through the mud man.

 

Because you don’t believe what somebody else tells you.

 

They don’t. They’re not me. But I’ll tell you something in 2015

 

I was probably serving 25 active clients, something like that.

 

A little bit each month, you know, a few hundred quid each basically on retainer.

 

But yeah, I was just exhausted, say underpaid, overworked.

 

I started looking around at some of the really kind of

 

successful business coaching type folks around the world.

 

A lot of them in the States, you know, your countrymen.

 

People like Frank Kern, Mike Dillard,

 

…maybe see my cover.

 

Richard Matthews  

I worked with Frank … did some training with his group.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, Bill Baron, you know, other guys are doing some good stuff.

 

And I just come learn very quickly from them,

 

How they were doing things differently from how I was three or four years ago.

 

Number one, it seemed they were very, very clear on what it was they did,

 

you know, they had a simple message.

 

You know, I mean, think about people like Ryan Levesque, you know,

 

The Ask Method, you know, that’s his…

 

And then they were clear on who their client avatar was, you know,

 

they went out and attracted a particular kind of person.

 

And that was completely foreign to me, you know,

 

I was just going to work with anybody would have me.

 

And then the third thing that all these successful coaches have done is

 

the product ties the services. So I was still selling the time,

 

I’m still selling my time by the hour in 2015.

 

You know, giving hourly rates or day rates or even a monthly retainer,

 

which, again, there’s no time leveraging any of those things.

 

It’s just swapping your time for money, isn’t it?

 

So what I learned is the concept of products and services

 

and marketing a program, which could be you know,

 

even my kind of high ticket program has four people on it,

 

you know, it’s a small group-guided coaching program.

 

But you know, the sky’s the limit, isn’t it?

 

When you have a digital program or downloadable program,

 

you can have 10,000 people downloading.

 

So, you know, I was just enraptured by 2015,

 

I was convinced that I had to leave my life behind

 

and get into the whole new world of time leverage, you know,

 

product as a services niching and specializing, you know,

 

what specialists … more than generalist on any field.

 

Yeah, that’s that’s how I got to where I am.

 

I just decided that my niche will be other coaches and therapists,

 

because they seemed like they were my tribe, you know,

 

I understand them… I’ve been where they are, kind of thing?

 

Yeah, absolutely.

 

Yeah. That’s my kind of involvement, really…

 

Richard Matthews  

you have a really, really interesting story that’s covered a lot of things.

 

So like, one of the things that we’ve talked about

 

a couple of times on the show in the past, is the idea that

 

you should be aware of the monster that you’re building. Right?

 

And you alluded to, with your business, right?

 

You built this business to $10 million, had 200 employees,

 

and realized that it’s not the business you want, right?

 

It’s not not what you wanted to be doing.

 

And that for whatever reason, there is a stigma in the business community

 

about people who run the types of businesses that you and I would run.

 

Where we have, a coaching and consulting business really like that…

 

you don’t have a real business, right? Because you don’t have a product

 

or you don’t have a huge team or something like that. Yeah.

 

[And which is this ridiculous question, why did it go stick on you, but lyst,]

 

the, one of the things that I found really, really potent in my life is understanding

 

[like I had a couple of him, the ability to really have to do with]

 

the decisions that we made were always, like, I don’t want to have a large team,

 

I don’t want to have, you know, be tied to a specific location

 

or an office or something like that. And, you know,

 

I was keenly aware of the monster I was building and was trying

 

to build my business to a specific place,

 

which I know is not a thing that a lot of people do, right?

 

They don’t start off thinking about, about the lifestyle

 

that the business you create, is going to going to return to you. Right?

 

And, and which is not always a bad thing, right?

 

Sometimes you have a mission that’s bigger than

 

whatever your desire would be.

 

Where it’s like, you know, if you’re talking about an Apple computer,

 

or Microsoft, or Google or something like that,

 

you’re building something like that

 

you have, you know, you have to build a big monster, which is fine, right?

 

There’s nothing wrong with that type of business.

 

But I think it’s important, particularly for people to know ahead of time,

 

am I the kind of person who’s trying to build a 200-person office

 

that’s doing you know, $10 million across the country?

 

Or am I looking to build a lifestyle business that hits a certain

 

income goal and, and lets me, you know, do what I want to do.

 

And just like being clear on that, I think is the important thing,

 

and you learned that lesson the hard way.

 

Jonny Cooper  

It may well be that I was just at a different time in my life.

 

Now that the appetite for that kind of growth isn’t necessarily there.

 

But you know what? It wasn’t a very efficient business looking back,

 

because in net terms, I’m probably taking as much revenue from my practice now,

 

at a fraction of the size and a fraction of the turnover.

 

As I was then I mean, you know, we were saying in the UK…

 

I don’t know whether you guys have a similar phrase, but

 

“turnover is vanity, profit is sanity”

 

Yeah. And you know, so that the headline figure means nothing,

 

because it is what the company’s actually creating in income, isn’t it?

 

That this autumn and looking back, you know, the actual drawings, if you like,

 

the money will change in the business monthly is about the same as,

 

as our money now doing this with just me and four freelancers.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah. Which is crazy, right? Yeah. Because I know, like,

 

my business is, you know, we’ve grown about four or five times over

 

the last couple of years for x. And, my team consists of me,

 

one full-time VA, a part time VA, graphic design retainer

 

and part-time developer, right? So there’s like five, pretty much the same as me.

 

Yeah. So like, there’s there’s not a lot that goes into it.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, yeah.

 

Richard Matthews  

And it’s very, very automated, like we were talking, before we get on the show,

 

like when this recording is done, zoom will automatically transcribe it

 

and automatically send it to my VA and robots take over and automatically assign.

 

Yeah, so most of what I do is very hands off, right.

 

And I still work on retainer with most of my clients,

 

but it’s high ticket retainer. And a lot of the work that gets done is

 

it gets done by teams, by my team members,

 

and gets done automatically. So you can leverage technology

 

and leverage a small team to accomplish a lot of things.

 

Which is really cool. It’s a cool place to be in.

 

So anyways, I find that it’s just interesting that

 

your story went through that kind of an arc?

 

Because it’s something that we’ve talked about.

 

Yeah, a few times.

 

Jonny Cooper  

I am actually up for exponential growth again,

 

but it’s going to mean something different altogether.

 

I’ve just this week actually engaged. A really key member of my team

 

who’s going to help me grow my business to seven figures.

 

So its mission 2020. So I want to have some 80 to 90 grand …

 

months in 2020. And she’s going to help me do it.

 

And she’s actually guided to other coaches that I know of,

 

in my circles to six figure launches, you know,

 

sort of hundred thousand dollar launches for the kind of

 

four or five week ramp-up. You know, so

 

Richard Matthews  

yeah, we’ve done that a couple of times with clients.

 

I think we’ve done… we did 115 k launch

 

125 k launch. Anyways, there. It’s fun, fun to do that kind of stuff.

 

Jonny Cooper  

It really is. I can’t wait, you know, it just sounds like

 

I just sound like someone else I want to do.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, yeah, I got one client who just hit…

 

they hit $786,000 this last year, and they’re on track

 

to crack a million this year crack million,

 

maybe a million and a quarter doing coaching. Yeah, it is

 

Jonny Cooper  

I know, this is you interviewing me but what size of a business is that?

 

How many people …

 

Richard Matthews  

He has one sales guy, he has one full-time U.S. assistant, and himself.

 

So it’s a three person team. Yeah, and he put almost 100% of his profits

 

the first year into media buying. So I mean, he spent he spent like

 

half a million dollars on media buying to make himself famous.

 

But anyways, it has definitely paid off on the other side of what he’s doing now.

 

So I mean, it’s crazy. And you can definitely build a big business

 

on a very small team. Nowadays, by leveraging technology

 

and leveraging just massive reach that we have the ability to have.

 

So and it’s also cool too, because you can reach your audience, right?

 

you can reach that tribe, like the specific tribe you were talking about.

 

And, you know, easier now than it’s ever been before,

 

which is just really cool. So, you alluded to this a little while ago that

 

you helped your clients find their superpower, so to speak.

 

So talk a little bit about your superpower, it’s what it is that you do or build

 

or offer to your clients that really helps them solve problems,

 

the things that you know, help them sleep

 

You know, slays your clients’ villains.

 

What would you say your superpower is?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, my one thing really is creating an absolute clarity and simplicity

 

in progress, success, and business systems.

 

So many coaches and therapists because they spend all their lives

 

learning how to be, you know, good coaches are good therapists,

 

and haven’t really studied any other sort of basic business stuff,

 

or basic marketing. So when they try, and when they try

 

and get out into the world, and start telling people about what they do,

 

they’re overwhelmed by it, because there’s so many different ways

 

that they can do it. So many marketing platforms,

 

so many social media platforms, you know.

 

Richard Matthews  

So

 

Jonny Cooper  

yeah, I only cut through the fog through the overwhelmed.

 

And it’s about this, this being very specific, being very, very focused,

 

I’m a great kind of advocate of the inch wide mile deep thing when it comes to anything,

 

but a client avatar development, you know,

 

people that try to appeal to everyone just means you appeal to no one, you know, yeah.

 

So I think my one superpower is my passion for simplicity,

 

for clarity, but basically doing as little work as possible

 

for as much impact impact.

 

Richard Matthews  

You walk in and help a client really identify who their person is,

 

and then how to talk to that person.

 

And then basically how to build a business around talking to that person, right?

 

What you’ve called conversational marketing.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Exactly, create a really simple conversational funnel, you know,

 

if we want to bring the F word into a funnel from somebody

 

who doesn’t know you to joining in your world, you know,

 

joining your group on your LinkedIn network, getting to know a bit about you,

 

and then giving you the effectively the permission to say,

 

tapped on the shoulder and say,

 

Hey, you know, we need to talk … I think I can help us share some insights,

 

and get on a call. And you know, once my clients understand how to do that,

 

it’s like a fog is lifted. It’s like they’ve overcome the plague.

 

And this virus, as I say,

 

Richard Matthews  

yeah, and what’s interesting is what  you’re ultimately doing is

 

you’re helping them to close deals and put revenue on the bottom line, right?

 

which changes their lives.

 

Jonny Cooper  

That’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s all about.

 

Sometimes a bit of, you know, mindset, particularly money-mindset work

 

that we do along the way.

 

You know what it’s like when people are feeling unworthy,

 

imposter syndrome, all that kind of thing.

 

And also, you know, maybe after a few years of hard knocks

 

and bump on the bond, people kind of get used to being poor, you know, yeah.

 

Used to not having a lot of money, right.

 

So, even the thought of a transition into relative prosperity and wealth,

 

can be scary, you know, they can actually be afraid of that.

 

Yeah. They kind of get comfortable having no money

 

and learning how to make ends meet.

 

Richard Matthews  

I’ve noticed the same thing happening in my life with time as well.

 

Having a wealth of time, I feel like this was an intentional thing, right?

 

Getting my business to a point where I could run my business

 

on five or six hours a day, instead of 18 hours a day,

 

and make more money doing it. I feel like, you know,

 

you have that same thing. Like, I feel like I’m not doing …

 

like I’m cheating myself or something. But I’m like, but it’s working.

 

So yeah, so the same thing happens with money.

 

But you know, like that, my I was just talking with my wife this week.

 

I was like, we’re going to have more extra money this month,

 

than, like my wife made all year when we got married.

 

Jonny Cooper  

The numbers are just crazy.

 

I mean, it’s the same in my family, actually. I mean, my wife was a very,

 

very experienced and an expert carer, you know.

 

She’s a nurse. Oh, Crikey. Yeah, what one month

 

revenue now in the business is her annual salary … Yeah.

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s what,..

 

Jonny Cooper  

yeah…

 

Richard Matthews  

It’s just crazy to that point, right? Where, you’re just like, man, like we were, you know,

 

all the bills are paid. And what’s left in the bank account at the end of the month

 

is more than we used to make in a year.

 

And you’re just like, that’s a crazy place to be.

 

But it’s also like, it’s a scary place to be. Right.

 

And, you have to get your mental, like, your mental game in place

 

o be able to handle that. Yeah, it’s really cool, right?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, I have a way of kind of reconciling that

 

and helping other people reconcile that when they start to get successful.

 

And that, if you regard the money just as a barometer of your impact,

 

so just a measure of how much you’re helping people,

 

then you’re going to feel a lot better as that, like you said,

 

the money in the bank increases.

 

Because that’s just a measure how many people you help out.

 

If you got 50 grand that money, you could say, well, you know,

 

there’s kind of 50 people I’ve helped, that there must be some competition.

 

You know, I’m saying,

 

Richard Matthews  

and I like just…

 

Jonny Cooper  

…money that doesn’t…

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, I like to talk in terms of like,

 

what I tell my kids all the time is you’re compensated in direct proportion

 

to the value you bring to the world. And what’s really happened is that

 

I’ve learned to become more valuable to more people at scale. Right.

 

And that’s what you help people do is you teach them

 

how to take their take their value, and you know,

 

you’re talking about identifying your avatar and getting their sales process down.

 

And what that does is once they can actually make that sale,

 

now that they can convey their value to that person.

 

A lot of times a coach and the therapist,

 

coaches and therapists have a ripple effect.

 

They’re not just helping that one person,

 

they’re helping all that that person can now help

 

so their value goes through the roof,

 

because of the number of people they’re helping

 

and things like, things like that. Yeah. So your indirect impact,

 

I think has a huge, huge piece of that.

 

And you’ll realize that your impact–as your impact goes up–

 

your value goes up … the amount of revenue that you make, it goes up.

 

Jonny Cooper  

I love what you said about the ripple effect.

 

I hadn’t used that phrase, but it’s clear, isn’t it?

 

You know, when I was a business consultant,

 

I was helping their business and some of them,

 

some of them were selling stuff that, you know, was irrelevant to most people, you know.

 

But clearly now, a coach and a therapist who is successful

 

is going out into the world, impacting people’s lives

 

and helping more people. So it’s a great way to look at it that,

 

you know, my position is, I feel really privileged that I’m I once

 

at the top of the permanent button, you know, I’m overlooking this

 

network of people who themselves are having big impacts.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, it’s a really cool, it’s a really cool place to be right.

 

So you know, … he’s got like, he’s got 300 or 400 people

 

that he’s helped become, you know, a millionaire in the real estate space.

 

And another client who’s helped, like, just in the last year,

 

they had 31, new millionaires, and they’re in ecom space.

 

And you’re like, that’s cool. Like I didn’t, yeah,

 

like, I didn’t directly help any of those people.

 

But I helped my clients reach those people and do the thing that they do.

 

And so you realize you have like, leveraged value when you do this kind of work,

 

which is, I think, really cool. So, I want to switch this a little bit from the superpower

 

to the opposite side of a hero, which is the fatal flaw, right?

 

Every superhero has their fatal flaws. You know, Batman’s not a hero,

 

or he’s not actually super.

 

Superman’s got his kryptonite. I tell people, my fatal flaw a lot of times is a

 

well, it used to be anyways,

 

I used to be a like, a horrible perfectionist, I would spend like, you know,

 

more hours than are reasonable on you know,

 

getting one pixel to go into the right spot and realizing that

 

it has nothing to do with producing revenue, and it’s just busy work.

 

And, you know, you get to the place where you realize that

 

perfection is the lowest standard you can hold yourself to.

 

Right, then you start changing those things.

 

But yeah, so So what would you say your fatal flaw has been in growing your

 

latest business here? And more importantly,

 

What have you done to overcome that?

 

So other people who might struggle with it can learn from you?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, it’s been procrastination probably.

 

And it’s a close cousin than sort of overwhelm…

 

I think, overwhelm can drive procrastination.

 

So, you know, I’m launching myself into effectively, a new world for me, in 2015.

 

I’ve not seen people face to face, pulling away completely from

 

done for you services to digital coaching.

 

Understanding that I can impact people all around the world,

 

there’s just so much there, which when it’s laid out, in front of you, just seems like,

 

Well, where do I start? You know, so it took me a good while to get going, you know,

 

I messed around for kind of six to eight months,

 

thinking what the hell am I gonna do?

 

What am I, you know, what can I do?

 

So the overwhelm of that bred procrastination,

 

then which I still suffer a bit now, you know,

 

I’ve got an idea to launch a new project.

 

I’m kind of a little bit Well, it’s going okay, now, it’s going okay, for now,

 

what I’m doing is going, Okay, let me just put off this new launch for another month,

 

another month, you know, so I haven’t, I haven’t taken advantage

 

of every opportunity I’ve had. And I’ve turned my back on some JV

 

simply because I can decide how I was going to leverage them,

 

I was going to work them out. So I’m getting better at that, you know,

 

I’ve taken on a couple of coaches this year.

 

helping me to get clarity on my growth strategy, you know,

 

where I need to begin. So I think the quick answer to you question is, procrastination.

 

Just been so not doing nothing.

 

Richard Matthews  

And you mentioned one of the things that you’ve been doing is

 

hiring coaches in to help you with your clarity in your movement.

 

How important do you think that is for someone,

 

when they find themselves stuck, and needing to move forward

 

to bring someone else to just, you know, I guess, kick your ass so to speak.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, it almost felt too late, when I was stuck, you know,

 

I wish I’d never stopped playing coach,

 

someone to run alongside you someone to hold you accountable.

 

And, you know, here’s the news folks, for your listeners, you know,

 

anyone thinking of who they should be coached by,

 

you only need somebody who’s a couple of steps ahead of you, you know,

 

somebody that lived your life or lived your journey,

 

perhaps a year or so ago, a couple years ago,

 

and they brought them through, and they’re clearly at a slightly higher level.

 

I like to work with coaches who are just a wee bit ahead of me, you know,

 

so I got current and relevant knowledge of what I’m going to make

 

and help them through that I think you should never stop learning, you know,

 

I’m committed now I’m not going to stop paying a coach ever.

 

It may not be the same coach, it’ll be different coaches,

 

I need at different points in my life. But, you know,

 

the impact that they have on me, and the difference that makes my business

 

just pay out their pays their fees, time time again, you know,

 

Richard Matthews  

yeah, I found the same thing with, like, having a small mastermind group

 

where the people in the group are either ahead of you,

 

or driving with you, right, they’re going the same direction,

 

and are willing to dive in and help push you forward has been really, really helpful.

 

You know, surrounding yourself with, you know, basically, what they say, you know,

 

you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

 

Jonny Cooper  

True.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah. And so if you’re intentional about spending time, even if it’s digitally, right,

 

digitally spending time with people that are either running faster than you

 

or are further ahead than you or are driving you to go faster, right?

 

Those people really help you grow your business as well.

 

And it’s the same similar type of thing to hiring a coach, right?

 

I’ve had, you know, the same thing where you hire a coach

 

and bring someone in spend money, figure out what was going on.

 

But I’ve also found, you can get similar value from having

 

a mastermind group that which allows you to pay for those

 

you have to pay to get into a mastermind group that’s worth is salt.

 

Really helped drive those things. So yeah. It’s definitely a great,

 

a great way to help yourself break through things that are keeping you stuck.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, obviously, everything we said about

 

not growing a massive business is still worth making strategic alliances,

 

isn’t it? With the right people at the right time?

 

Yeah. So almost like J Visa, the new employment, you know, just

 

Richard Matthews  

ventures and getting into a getting … all the things that sort of make the internet go around.

 

You know, all the stuff that’s going on.

 

So, continue The HERO Story. Every hero has a common enemy, right?

 

So you know, Spider Man fights to save New York,

 

Batman fights to save Gotham, Google fights to index all of the world’s information. Right?

 

You know, what would you say?

 

What would you say? Your your driving force is…

 

The thing that you really wish you could affect in people’s lives?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, I’d like to make a dent in the coaching universe.

 

I would really like. And this is not here. Golden eyes a mission statement, actually,

 

that I want to impact the lives of 100,000 coaches and therapists by 2025.

 

So got six years to go, that’s looking good.

 

Richard Matthews  

ambitious.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah. Well, with group programs, and downloadable programs,

 

and my subscription membership community, the private member’s club,

 

and the numbers are scalable. So that kind of level by 2025.

 

But what I mean by impact in their lives, and the reason I want to do it

 

stems back to about 2015. Again, when I read a survey about

 

one of the big global accountancy firms PwC, or something like that,

 

and they did work out that the average coaching income

 

around the world was 30,000 pounds or usd.

 

And it just to me for the incredible level of skills that all these coaches

 

and therapists as well. That kind of remuneration is just pitiful.

 

It’s just a shame, basically. But that’s not being put out there.

 

They’re not having the impact,

 

Richard Matthews  

especially since coaching and consulting

 

is one of the fastest growing industries in the world.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, but you know, within a figure like 30,000, obviously,

 

there’s a bunch of people who are doing inordinately well, like in any industry.

 

So that must equally be a lot of people who are running next to nothing, you know,

 

doing what they do. So it just seemed a shame.

 

And it’s a bit of a mission for me, you know,

 

if I find someone who’s a heart centered therapist or coach,

 

and they’re just getting started, or they’ve been doing it a while

 

and haven’t cracked the code of client attraction, then, you know,

 

helping them get to the next level, helping them

 

burst through their average earnings into, you know,

 

I guess the steps are five grand a month,

 

and then five figures a month and beyond, you know,

 

if I can help people do that, then it feels like a bit of a quest

 

bit of a mission. Because the world needs coaching, doesn’t it?

 

You know, the world needs people who can help their clients

 

help people, be more calm, get over mental health issues, you know,

 

be both kind to each other and have a rest of this nice touchy-feely stuff,

 

I’ll make the world a better place to live in.

 

So if I can make that little dent from my side,

 

then I’m going to be putting people out into the world who can,

 

like we said earlier, you know, impact more and more and more people.

 

So I don’t know. Look at that number of 100,000.

 

God knows how many clients they’ll have.

 

So could be in the millions couldn’t say that. indirectly.

 

I’m having quite an impact upon hopefully.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah. So that’s, that’s really interesting on a,

 

from a habit having something that is that specific, as your goal,

 

how do you think that’s impacted the decisions that you make,

 

as you’re building your programs and choosing what to do for marketing?

 

And what podcasts to come guest on?

 

How do you think having a very specific goal like that

 

has impacted that kind of decision making?

 

Jonny Cooper  

It drives everything I do, Richard. It forms everything I do.

 

You know, when I dream, a new program, I’m working out

 

how many people are going to be on it,

 

I’m launched, I’m going to have, you know, how many people can come through it.

 

The big numbers like that, clearly will always be with the low ticket programs.

 

You know, my private member’s club is only 67 pound a month,

 

which is like 97 bucks. So you know, there will be hundreds

 

and thousands of people through that in the next five or six years.

 

Hopefully, many of them will stay as well.

 

Then I got the medium ticket group coaching program

 

and my one on one which is which is ultra high ticket kind of thing.

 

I’m developing a program now called the Client Attraction Academy,

 

which is going to be a downloadable version of my hands-on group coaching program.

 

And that’s only going to be 1000 quid basically 997.

 

So I think that’s going to be affordable to many, many more people

 

than my current sort of medium ticket offering.

 

So we could get hundreds of people through that,

 

couldn’t we? Every year, which is great for my bottom line,

 

but even better for my impact on the world.

 

Richard Matthews  

Absolutely. So random cultural question.

 

What’s the difference between a pound and a quid?

 

Jonny Cooper  

A quid is apparently it’s just the colloquialism. It’s like a buck and $1. Basically.

 

Richard Matthews  

Okay, got it. So I was I was trying to figure out I was like,

 

I don’t know what a quid is…

 

is that different than a pound? So there you go.

 

Jonny Cooper  

I think it’s from the Latin, isn’t it?

 

I mean, Google might prove me wrong, a cursory search,

 

but it feels like quid pro quo. That kind of fair exchange. Must be related to the

 

Richard Matthews  

okay. Yeah,

 

Jonny Cooper  

you give a …

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

Jonny Cooper  

You give a note, you get something badly purchased for, you know, associates a quid.

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s just the same way we use buck instead of dollar.

 

Just a couple of bucks.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Absolutely.

 

Richard Matthews  

Got it. That makes sense. Okay, so I’ll talk a little bit about your common enemy.

 

So if you could go into your clients lives and just remove one thing

 

that is holding them back, like magic wand style,

 

kind of remove it, and you know, help them break through immediately?

 

What would that be?

 

Jonny Cooper  

I think it’s the mistaken belief that they have to try and help everybody.

 

Richard Matthews  

So why do you think people believe they have to help everybody?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Because they can, and probably because they have.

 

So starting up, you know, the process, when you learn to be a coach, you know,

 

you may have got a qualification or some kind of accreditation,

 

and you kind of go on your friends and say,

 

Hey, can I coach you? Let me coach you.

 

So you got a rag bag of different people…

 

you have a cross section of the human race, if you mistakenly believe that

 

that’s the way you can build your business, and you can carry on

 

just appealing to everyone, you know, trying to get anybody through the door,

 

looks like you want to help. Whereas of course,

 

that makes the whole task of marketing. Really, really, really difficult.

 

Because you have no one to talk to,

 

you have no one to talk to, you know,

 

one specific result. You can’t corral people together in groups,

 

either prospecting conversations or offer sale.

 

So that’s what changed everything for me, you know,

 

deciding to focus on coaches. And therapists was not just any niche,

 

not just that they need my help.

 

But they’re easily identified. How many coaching groups are there on Facebook,

 

and people call themselves coach, people call themselves therapist on LinkedIn.

 

So you can do research. And the LinkedIn algorithm has now learned

 

that I only want to connect with coaches and therapists.

 

So in my feed of people I might know

 

and want to connect to … it only shows me coaching purposes. So yeah,

 

Richard Matthews  

yeah, it’s a you mentioned Frank Kern earlier,

 

one of the things Frank Kern talks about is, in order to make money

 

and whatever your business is, you have to solve a problem for

 

an easily identifiable group of people with money.

 

Right, so like, that’s the formula, it’s like, you have to find how to solve a problem.

 

Right. So that’s the first part, if you can’t solve a problem, you can’t help anyone,

 

then you have to do it for an easily identifiable group of people.

 

And that grou of people should have money to help you to solve the problem.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Exactly. I only overlay one thing on that, and that’s a perfect definition otherwise,

 

that you have to enjoy working with them. So you know, that’s good people,

 

people you should care about. I guess, when you have the distance

 

that Frank Kern has, you know, his business is about downloadable stuff,

 

it doesn’t matter so much, but in our kind of, you know,

 

organic conversation-based my ticket sales way of working with them

 

for a period directly, you’ve got to kind of like them, you gotta want

 

Richard Matthews  

to enjoy working with them,

 

Jonny Cooper  

you’re gonna enjoy.

 

Richard Matthews  

That’s, an important part. One of the things I wanted to talk about

 

was something I learned, I went to preaching college,

 

I learned in school, I was trained to be a preacher.

 

And one of the one of the lessons that we learned in preaching class was

 

when speaking to an audience, one of the things that they taught you was

 

how to speak to an audience. And the realization is that basically,

 

what it came down to is, there’s no such thing as an audience, right?

 

An audience doesn’t exist, a group doesn’t exist, they are just, you know,

 

they’re blanket terms we use to describe a set of individuals.

 

Yeah, in the same way that like, if you look at the words hot and cold,

 

cold doesn’t exist, right? Cold isn’t a thing. It’s a word we use to describe

 

a certain level of heat. Right, so it’s not, it’s not an actual tangible thing.

 

Same way that groups and audiences aren’t a tangible thing.

 

And so the exercise that we went through, was,

 

if you’re standing in front of a classroom,

 

or the front of an audience, or digitally talking to, you know,

 

a hundred thousand people online, if you look at an individual in the audience,

 

\and you ask them a question, but tell them not to respond.

 

And then you ask the audience, who did I ask that question to?

 

The person you were looking at, and everyone around them

 

in a 5 to 10 foot circle will all raise their hands.

 

Now, if you do the same thing, and you go to a different part of the audience,

 

between two people at a blank space, ask the same question,

 

tell the audience not to respond, and then ask them, who did they ask the question to,

 

nobody will raise their hand, because you’re not connecting with anyone. Right?

 

And you have to connect with an individual,

 

you have to look at an individual. Right, so that’s a public speaking tip.

 

But the concept of speaking to an individual, when an individual,

 

you will actually attract all the people that are around

 

and similar to that individual, which is an important like,

 

part of what you’re talking about with knowing,

 

Jonny Cooper  

I love that Richard. To use a preachy term in a mentor that,

 

you know, that is just such a perfect analogy it’s such a perfect metaphor

 

for attracting a bunch of people by actually, speaking to one.

 

This isn’t the half of everything I show people how to do you know,

 

when we talk about your ideal client, there isn’t an S on that,

 

for a very good reason. That you’re imagining this perfect client,

 

and part of the work that we do …

 

the exercise is to actually find an image, random google image of someone

 

who looks like your ideal client, give them a name, and kind of paste that up,

 

you know, this is who I’m talking to, and just talk to that person endlessly.

 

You know, just talk to them about their problems, their issues,

 

in all your posts in all your marketing. And then all the people like them,

 

will think you’re talking to them as well.

 

All people around them, as you’ve said, in your show today, you know,

 

all the people around them will think you’re talking to them as well.

 

Yeah, that there’s there’s just so much power in that

 

it is the opposite of you know, as I say vagueness and spray and pray

 

we call it in English sometimes, you know, just, yeah, just transfer to everyone…

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah. The American colloquialism is hope and pray open, right?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah. Yeah, I like spray and pray.

 

So, you can imagine like a hose, you know, everywhere.

 

[Normally lands, of course, our rights when you do.]

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, yeah, I just, I just think it’s, it’s so important to understand that particular thing

 

if someone’s watching this, they walk away with that one thought

 

that I need to speak to an individual. And it’s important because we,

 

you know, you talk a lot of times like

 

I can help everybody,

 

everybody doesn’t exist. It’s not a thing. Right?

 

Just like, a group or audience is not a thing.

 

It’s the thing we use to describe a set of individuals.

 

So you’re always helping and working with individuals.

 

So anyway, so that’s an important point.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah. I love that. Richard. Yeah. Thanks for that.

 

Additional clarity. I’m going to use that now. Use

 

Richard Matthews  

that metaphor. Yeah. It’s, it’s a great metaphor you get there.

 

I was in college when Youtube just became public.

 

So there was a Youtube video that we watched of

 

a preacher doing that exercise, you might be able to find it,

 

but it was a long time ago, so maybe not.

 

  

 

Jonny Cooper  

I’m just pouring some water. I hope this isn’t…

 

Richard Matthews  

I’ve got my water too. So you know, no problem with that.

 

I think our audience understands you have to …

 

if you talk for too long your voice goes away.

 

So talk a little bit about some practical things, right?

 

Your Hero’s Toolbelt, tool belt, right?

 

So you know, we may have a big magical hammer like Thor

 

or a bulletproof vest, like your neighborhood police officer,

 

maybe just like the way, Evernote or Trello, you know,

 

works really well for your business.

 

Do you have any particular tools you use all the time that have

 

helped you build the business that you build? Now?

 

Jonny Cooper  

This is an easy one, I’ve got to jump straight in and say Calendar Scheduling,

 

Richard Matthews  

Calendar Scheduling.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Well, I use YouCanBook.me. But there are a number out there, of course.

 

Acuity Calendar, you know, all the rest of them.

 

Richard Matthews  

I use ScheduleOnce. Like life changing.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, isn’t it just…

 

I mean, you’ve got to understand the concept

 

before you think about which one to choose.

 

And, you know, if you just think about what we used to do before calendar scheduling.

 

So, you know, you’d get to hang out with somebody who said,

 

let’s have a coffee some time. You go. Okay, how about Tuesday afternoon,

 

they kind of choose different.

 

What about Thursday morning?

 

You got… I’m not in town…

 

And then OK, let’s look at next week.

 

And this will go for hours? It will go on for hours, possibly days.

 

You’re doing it from a distance…

 

Yeah. Half the time, it would fizzle out before you even made an appointment,

 

one or both of you would lose interest before you actually made an appointment.

 

I can’t be Yeah, it’s incredible we used to put ourselves through this.

 

But what’s even more incredible is that anybody still puts themselves through it today.

 

So this has to stop, guys, if you don’t use an online calendar,

 

link up to a counter scheduling tool,

 

then you’re missing the biggest trick of all.

 

You really, really, really must be doing this.

 

And particularly in the kind of conversational funnel, Richard.

 

I talked about so far. Where you get someone to the point of

 

maximum excitement if you like, and you say to him in a nice little direct message,

 

I think I can share some insight. Let’s jump on a call and see if I can help you.

 

My treat, I do want to say, and then just putting a link to a calendar scheduler.

 

If you don’t do that, they’re going to come back and say sure, when are you free?

 

And the whole bloody charade starts again, you know, you go on for days,

 

trying to find a space in your diary that matches the space in their diary it’s nonsense.

 

So, yeah, once you put your link in, you know,

 

I’m sure most people using this have the same experience.

 

70 to 80% of people use find the link to book an appointment

 

it will just appear in your calendars by magic.

 

So that’s a bit of time saved that has made a difference to my business.

 

Richard Matthews  

It’s been a fantastic, fantastic thing for like not just booking appointments,

 

for getting clients, I use it for booking appointments with existing clients.

 

I use it for booking podcast guests.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah.

 

Richard Matthews  

Right. So we use it for all sorts of stuff.

 

And like one of the hacks that I do is since I do it all the time,

 

I have to send out my link, you know, typing out my link is like

 

it’s like http://meetme.so/Richard W like, it’s a lot of stuff.

 

Yeah, so what you can do is on both Google and Android, not Google…

 

iPhone, and Android and Mac, all those all the systems,

 

you can do keyboard shortcuts, where you can find your own shortcut.

 

So I actually I set it so if I type the word meetme, without a without a space in it,

 

it automatically fills in my calendar link.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Jeez that’s a hack, I need to look at that.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, so if you have an iPhone, you can just go into the keyboard

 

and set up a–what do you call it–a shortcut,

 

like a certain set of letters that you type.

 

And if you type those letters together, it’ll auto fill in your thing

 

so I’ve set that up on my computer just because I … you know,

 

it’s something I do all the time.

 

And yeah, it’s a huge thing and when you run into someone

 

that doesn’t use it like they ask you to booking

 

you have to go back and forth a lot of times

 

I’m like, I can’t handle it.

 

Jonny Cooper  

I always take the initiative if somebody says sure when are you free?

 

Just send them the link you know, how about you tell me… you know, when I’m free.

 

Richard Matthews  

I tell people all the time I live and die by my calendar.

 

If my calendar went away tomorrow

 

I would cry a sad sad tear because I woldn’t know what to do

 

and it’s one of the things… like I have four children

 

and like they don’t understand why I won’t let them touch any of my devices

 

like mobile devices. Like the most important thing is my calendar

 

I’m like you, you know, can’t touch my devices because

 

because they go into my calendar and delete things.

 

It has access to my calendar and I live and die by my calendar.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So that’s my tech tip with

 

Unknown Speaker  

  

 

Unknown Speaker  

  

 

Richard Matthews  

Cool. So let’s talk a little bit about your own personal heroes.

 

You know, Frodo had Gandalf.

 

Luke had Obi-Wan.

 

Robert Kiyosaki’s rich dad, who are some of your heroes?

 

Are they real life? You know, mentors? Were they speakers or authors?

 

Were they peers who are maybe just a few years ahead of you?

 

And how important were they to what you’ve accomplished so far in your coaching business?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Well, I guess my influence is in the coaching space.

 

The first guy that I really, really hooked onto was a guy called Stu McLaren.

 

I don’t know if you’ve come across Stu. He is a Canadian recurring revenue guru.

 

Richard Matthews  

I heard his name.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah. So he’s really big in the recurring revenue space.

 

His big claim to fame, got his business rolling, was they helped Michael Neal,

 

The New York Times bestselling author and mind coach.

 

He helped him calm his lifestyle from flying all over the country,

 

book signings and speaking events into a digital business basically,

 

on recurring revenue, build a subscription community, if you like.

 

Stu McClain was a real early influence about in the kind of marketing that he was doing.

 

He really impressed me, you know, is reaching these programs and downloadable videos,

 

all that kind of thing. And then, of course, the guy was already mentioned, Frank Kern,

 

I’ve subscribed to him for many years, and just really admire the stuff he was doing,

 

you know, you can really, really see that,

 

you know, he built an empire on the back of all the classic,

 

you know, funnel stuff… What’s interesting to me about these people as well

 

is not just admiring them from afar, but kind of reverse engineering what they’re doing.

 

You know, looking at the bits – the magic dust that they’re sprinkling on that proces.

 

Y you know, what makes their process work when somebody else

 

who might be appearing to be doing the same thing just doesn’t work as well.

 

You know, I guess with people like Frank, you know, this is 4 million person email list

 

that helps, you know – that’s a big part of it. Yeah.

 

But I think if you look for people who appear to be living the life that you like to live,

 

and kind of model, the cool stuff they’re doing.

 

And, you know, this concept of reverse engineering, funnel hacking,

 

I think they call it… And that’s the key thing and don’t be diverted by

 

people who are successful, but don’t resonate with you.

 

So I think the key the key part of that is fun people who are living the life

 

that you want to live. Or who appear to be and by all means be influenced by them.

 

So you know, there are some big names out there that I pay no attention to,

 

because I don’t want to be like them at all.

 

I’m thinking people like Gary Vee. Undeniably successful

 

but I do not want to be like him. I don’t follow him. Tony Robbins.

 

Richard Matthews  

I’m gonna say my…

 

Jonny Cooper  

yeah, Tony Robbins. I don’t want to be like him.

 

I don’t ever want to fill a room with devotees with sycophants, you know,

 

and give them an adrenaline rush for a few hours that soon wears off.

 

And there’s no long term impact on you know,

 

I don’t want to be that guy, either.

 

So, I think you’ve got to be very careful when you’re picking your heroes, too.

 

Select people who meet your values and appear, as I say,

 

to be living the life that you want to live.

 

And then by all means, let them influence you as much you can.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, I think it’s really interesting because I learned early on that

 

you have to be specific about who you’re picking in different areas of your life.

 

The person that might be your hero in business might not be your hero

 

for your spiritual life or for how you’re raising your children,

 

or for your relationships and stuff like that. So, you know,

 

I always like to look at the results that someone has in a specific area.

 

Like, how did your kids turn out before I listen to you for parenting advice.

 

And what does your business look like from a lifestyle standpoint

 

before I listen to you from a business standpoint, right?

 

You know, because like, I’m on that same token, like, Gary Vee is a great guy.

 

And I like what he’s doing. And I like everything, a lot of things that he says,

 

but he’s also got a 300-person businesses building a media empire.

 

That’s not the type of business I want.

 

And there’s another … it’s the wrong kind of business.

 

It’s just not the business I want.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yes, it’s interesting how you kind of put together your kind of hero panel

 

from different people in different areas.

 

And that’s just because nobody’s exactly like you.

 

You take bits of a number of people. It is probably the only way

 

you’re going to get anything that resembles you as a person anyway.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, certainly, you know, you can pick and choose the things

 

that you want to learn and listen from.

 

So like Frank Kern, for instance, you know, I’ve seen him at his team,

 

he’s got a small team, right? And he’s got a large revenue from a small team,

 

and has a lot of freedom because of it, that I like, right.

 

So that’s one of the reasons why I pay attention to what he says about

 

how and why he runs the business, why he does it.

 

Because it’s an alignment with what I want to do with my business.

 

And again, that’s not to say that that’s the only way to do it.

 

It’s just, it’s the way that I like it. So if he’s one of them, I’ve put it my

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, I do feel he is one of the good guys, you know.

 

I’ve never met him, but he comes across as someone that resonates with my values.

 

Yeah, definitely.

 

Richard Matthews  

Absolutely. So let’s break down a little bit for our listeners

 

and talk about some guiding principles.

 

What are the top one or two principles or actions that you implement on a daily basis,

 

that have helped you achieve the level of success that you’ve, you know, sort of had so far.

 

Jonny Cooper  

So we thinking processes here? kind of tactical?

 

Richard Matthews  

Processes or something we do on a daily basis.

 

I mean, some of the things that people are talking about, you know,

 

meditating or taking notes on a daily basis or something,

 

like something that you’re doing on a daily basis that is helping you push the needle forward,

 

on a regular basis, something that maybe you wish you’d known when you got started.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, right. Well, that question makes me want to talk about, I think,

 

is the structure and discipline of a digital calendar.

 

I’m just coming back… but also, the understanding that

 

if I’m going to hook my calendar up for the world, to see the blank spaces, if you like,

 

on the Calendar Scheduler. This is to get anyone who isn’t using a scheduler

 

and is worried about sharing your calendar,

 

the calendar surely doesn’t display your calendar just displays the gaps

 

in the calendar where people can pop things.

 

If you’re going to do that, you’re going to live your life by that,

 

you better make sure that everything you want to do on a daily basis

 

is already on your calendar. Otherwise, someone’s going to grab that slot.

 

So you know, family time, mealtimes, workout meditation,

 

calls with clients across that then come in from them fundamentally.

 

Put in space to build stuff, you know.

 

I have reading and writing slots, I blank out on my card.

 

So the discipline of that means that

 

A, nobody can block anything across it

 

and B, if I’m going to be true to myself, I’ve got to do that stuff when it’s on my calendar.

 

So the discipline and the structure that then drives the process that builds my business,

 

assuming I’ve put the right stuff in the calendar in the first place.

 

And that’s just tremendous, you know,

 

and it’s the opposite of coming into an office with a kind of empty desk.

 

And going “Right, what we’re gonna do today?”

 

Richard Matthews  

you’ve already got it scheduled on the calendar, you know what you’re doing.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, it’s alright to do that. Now, sure you can cut yourself some slack.

 

And if it says reading or writing for two hours on a Monday morning,

 

I don’t feel like doing either of those things. I don’t have to, you know,

 

it’s my game is my rules. And I can break the rules when I want.

 

We’re just having it in the first place.

 

Motivation, stops procrastination, at least to some extent.

 

So I think that one thing. So it’s a combination of the mindset, isn’t it?

 

And the desire to create structure, coupled with the technology

 

that the digital calendar allows, shedding light on them.

 

Richard Matthews  

And I think one of the things that forces you to do too,

 

if you’re going to commit to putting it on your calendar,

 

you have to actually think about, is this the kind of thing that’s actually

 

going to produce revenue? Is it worth blocking out time on my calendar for, right?

 

So you have to be a little bit more stringent with what you’re doing with your time.

 

Because you’re actually thinking about it,

 

instead of letting your business sort of happen to you.

 

You’re happening to your business, right?

 

You’re actually the one who’s driving it,

 

which I think is a really important point.

 

And it’s absolutely true and I do the same thing.

 

I have a couple of calendars, right?

 

I have like a family calendar, and we have like a travel calendar.

 

Because we travel all the time, so we try every couple of weeks,

 

and I make sure that, you know, on travel days, it actually blocks the day out.

 

So it’ll show up on the calendar, but like when my wife books something for,

 

you know that she wants me or the kids or whatever to be at

 

that it blocks out that time on my calendar,

 

I’m including the travel stuff like that.

 

So it’s like, you know, when I say we live and die by the calendar…like it’s true.

 

And it’s got to be on the calendar in order for … It’s really interesting.

 

The more I locked down my calendar,

 

the more freedom I have in my business, which seems counterintuitive.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Absolutely. Absolutely. I was going to make that point as if it seems like, you know,

 

a rigid, almost kind of military like discipline.

 

It’s actually the opposite of that.

 

Because what it stops happening…

 

it stops random emergencies that are certainly arriving on your calendar.

 

Because if you’re doing something else, then you’re doing something else, you know.

 

When people will say to you

 

Oh, can I have a quick word with you?

 

Sometimes you get in your messenger

 

Can I pick your brains for a moment?

 

The answer is grab a slot on my calendar.

 

I can talk, assuming you want to talk at all,

 

send them a Scheduler link, and they can find some space for themselves.

 

But you don’t do like what I used to do in the old days, you know.

 

If your phone rang on your desk, you take the call, and 15 or 20 minutes later,

 

you realize that you’ve forgotten what you’re doing before the call.

 

And life was way more chaotic. So military discipline is about making life easier.

 

Richard Matthews  

It’s about making life easier. And then the other thing that it does too is …

 

and I’m not sure if you’ve noticed this but when you are not doing things

 

that are on your work schedule, you’re doing things that are for yourself

 

or for your family or other things you are freer in those times.

 

You’re not thinking about the other stuff.

 

You’re not thinking to yourself, Is there something else I could be doing?

 

or is there something else I should be doing?

 

Because you’ve already done it.

 

It’s already on the calendar.

 

Yeah, it’s like not taking up mental space.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, I agree. And you get better at it as well you know,

 

when I first started with the digital calendar, it was pretty sparse

 

and you know, it was just appointments but once you learn that

 

if you put everything that you want to do on it,

 

including in-office tasks that don’t involve anybody else

 

and like you say you know when there’s a blank space

 

and nobody’s booked it you can just walk out.

 

Stand in the sunshine for a bit you know. Why shouldn’t you?

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, and you know, I do this.

 

I said we travel, right? so we’re always in cool places.

 

So you know, when I got a couple of hours free on the calendar,

 

I’ll go out and just sit and enjoy or go for a walk or you know,

 

take the kids to the pool and actually, sort of the reason we’re building

 

this kind of stuff is to have some of that time freedom.

 

So use it …

 

Jonny Cooper  

having this conversation is teaching me that

 

the calendar is even more important than I thought it was.

 

It’s a wonderful. Can I ask you a question?

 

This might not mean something but it’s not a virtual background you got there?

 

Richard Matthews  

No that is a sheet that I’ve got hanging out in my RV here.

 

…  

 

Jonny Cooper  

…

 

Richard Matthews  

…this is an RV… like a fake office that I made to do the podcast.

 

So it looks all professional and cool.

 

Jonny Cooper  

…

 

Richard Matthews  

This is a Western RV … Western something

 

Western something Alpine anyways

 

they were a sort of a luxury brand 2002 / 2008 or so

 

and then they got they got crushed in the

 

What do you call it the economy downturn here in these States

 

and got bankrupt. So this company no longer exists.

 

You can’t buy these RVs anymore, which is too bad because it’s…

 

but yeah, the I don’t know if you can see on here I’ve got a light up to my right here

 

that’s my glasses a little bit you know, lights the face,

 

got the background, got a nice camera, whatever.

 

So, you know, you can make a cool little professional-looking studio in a small space,

 

you know, so nothing really should stop people if they want to

 

get on and start actually creating content.

 

Jonny Cooper  

…

 

Richard Matthews  

So I’m in a little town North of I say a little town of about 150,000 people …

 

It’s called Menifee, which is right next to the Temecula wine country

 

And Temecula is sort of world-famous for their wines.

 

Jonny Cooper  

So that’s on the way up to San Francisco?

 

Richard Matthews  

We are closer to San Diego.

 

So San Diego. Okay. Yeah. So it’s about an eight-hour drive from here to San Francisco.

 

It’s about a 55 minute drive to San Diego.

 

So San Francisco is North. San Diego, south.

 

And we’re on our way… we’re going to be in San Diego next week.

 

And then we’re going to be going up the coast.

 

So we’ll be in San Francisco probably in a couple of months.

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, Highway 1 then? PCH. Yeah, I know my brother lives in Torrance, California.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah. So I’ve got one last thing I do on the show every time.

 

This is a simple, simple thing I call The Hero Challenge.

 

And The Hero Challenge is basically this.

 

Do you have someone in your network that you think has a cool story that is worth sharing?

 

You know, to pull back their mask a little bit on the show?

 

Who are they? And why do you think they should be on the show?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Yeah, I’m going to name Steve Blampied.

 

He lives on Jersey, which is a little island five miles by one mile.

 

It’s in the Channel Islands off the coast of the UK.

 

And Steve is a Mind Fixer. In fact, he is The Mind Fixer. That’s his title.

 

He does some amazingly cool things with hypnotherapy

 

and mind hacks and all that kind of stuff.

 

And he would be amazing to get on your podcast. Yeah.

 

Richard Matthews  

Awesome. Cool. So we’ll reach out and connect later

 

about how we can connect and get him on the show. So last little bit here.

 

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

 

The last little thing is where can people go if they want to find you?

 

So if they want to listen to your podcast or your Facebook groups,

 

where can they find you? And then another question.

 

Who is the ideal person–we’ve been talking a little bit about coaches and therapists–

 

but who are the kind of people that should reach out

 

and sort of look into the things that you’re doing?

 

Jonny Cooper  

Well, it’s exactly that. And I’ve got total clarity on who should be doing it.

 

So coaches and therapists who are looking to find more of their ideal clients more easily

 

without paid advertising. And they can find me on Facebook,

 

as you’ve alluded to, the group is called Johny Hates Marketing.

 

So then, go to Facebook.com/groups/JonnyHatesMarketing

 

or just search. Jonny Hates Marketing on Facebook.

 

You can imagine there’s not a lot of buzz around.

 

There’s no Dave Hates Marketing or Sheila Hates Marketing.

 

It’s only Jonny Hates Marketing.

 

Facebook’s kind in the search and finding that line

 

and please just join the group and we’ll hang out have a good time.

 

Richard Matthews  

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on the show Jonny.

 

It’s been a pleasure having you here.

 

And so, if you are a coach or a therapist,

 

and you’re looking to grow your client base and you don’t want to spend the money

 

in advertising, you like the idea of maybe this conversational marketing,

 

definitely take the time to reach out on Facebook.

 

It’s Facebook.com/groups/JonnyHatesMarketing.

 

So again, thank you so much

 

for coming on, Jonny. I appreciate having you here.

 

Jonny Cooper  

You’re more than welcome.